Charity is the key

[creekster]

I enjoy greatly the discussions that take place here about doctrine (or lack thereof, right SU?) and related questions. Given my experience in the LDS church, however, these issues just aren’t that important to the work of the kingdom. I have served in a variety of callings that are administrative as well as some that focus on ministering. The real work in the kingdom, I think, is not figuring out what Brigham taught at the veil (or similar), but is found in serving those around us. It is amazing how many needs are not being met in people around us. Even in relatively affluent areas with people that seem to have their act together there are many that need help, attention, sustenance, or a friend, and aren’t getting it. So studying doctrine is important, certainly, but it is at the top of the Maslow-like religious hierarchy of important actions. The bottom level of deficiency is charity to and love for those around us. That is pure religion and without it the intricacies of doctrine don’t matter and with it, they also don’t matter, just in a different way.

[RockyBalboa]

Agreed. A lot of people get caught or hung up in the doctrine and if you believe what you read on here, it's 183502385029852305 different meanings.

It might be cliched, but it is true that charity prevaileth.

I could learn to be much better by abiding by it.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

I enjoy greatly the discussions that take place here about doctrine (or lack thereof, right SU?) and related questions. Given my experience in the LDS church, however, these issues just aren’t that important to the work of the kingdom. I have served in a variety of callings that are administrative as well as some that focus on ministering. The real work in the kingdom, I think, is not figuring out what Brigham taught at the veil (or similar), but is found in serving those around us. It is amazing how many needs are not being met in people around us. Even in relatively affluent areas with people that seem to have their act together there are many that need help, attention, sustenance, or a friend, and aren’t getting it. So studying doctrine is important, certainly, but it is at the top of the Maslow-like religious hierarchy of important actions. The bottom level of deficiency is charity to and love for those around us. That is pure religion and without it the intricacies of doctrine don’t matter and with it, they also don’t matter, just in a different way.

The principle of charity toward all men is the main difference between meaningful Christianity and mainstream Islam, as distinguished from Sufism. There are Buddhist and Hindu principles approximating Christian charity, but it is almost devoid from Islam.

Now stumbling upon somebody of any faith who practices it in reality is rare, unfortunately.

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by creekster

I enjoy greatly the discussions that take place here about doctrine (or lack thereof, right SU?) and related questions. Given my experience in the LDS church, however, these issues just aren’t that important to the work of the kingdom. I have served in a variety of callings that are administrative as well as some that focus on ministering. The real work in the kingdom, I think, is not figuring out what Brigham taught at the veil (or similar), but is found in serving those around us. It is amazing how many needs are not being met in people around us. Even in relatively affluent areas with people that seem to have their act together there are many that need help, attention, sustenance, or a friend, and aren’t getting it. So studying doctrine is important, certainly, but it is at the top of the Maslow-like religious hierarchy of important actions. The bottom level of deficiency is charity to and love for those around us. That is pure religion and without it the intricacies of doctrine don’t matter and with it, they also don’t matter, just in a different way.

It's kind of funny, but it seems like it's only with church doctrine (and maybe television) that we seem to get lectured regarding spending too much time on the intricacies of the doctrine, and on how it's more important to focus on the basics, like service and faith.

Does this happen to people who are studying literature or who devour political writings?

It's almost like it's assumed that the people studying and discussing the intricacies of the gospel are neglecting the basics. It seems to me like the opposite should be the case - of course those people who are interested enough in the doctrines of the gospel are familiar with the basics - isn't it more likely that the people failing to live the basics are those who have no interest in learning about it whatsoever?

Or is it just a way that those who do not have the same level of interest in learning about it are trying to justify themselves by saying, "Well, he may know a lot more about the gospel, but at least I'm living it!"

And before you start calling me condescending, I don't claim to be a gospel intellectual (although I enjoy following the discussions), and I don't claim to be the most faithful LDS member, either. I have significant failings in both arenas. This is just an observation.

[BarbaraGordon]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fpzDJFvmYwk

Hey, Creek, this is precisely why I broke with my upbringing. They were so wrapped up in postmillenialism or premillenialism or infallibility theory or whether sin nature is passed via the Y chromosome that they rarely looked up to see the real world.

If we spend all our time trying to sort out every detail of an infinite God and His revelations to us, we forget the very core of Christ's teaching.

Doctrinal exploration may be fun as an intellectual exercise. But for me personally, it is not the heart of faith or of the spiritual journey.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by creekster

I enjoy greatly the discussions that take place here about doctrine (or lack thereof, right SU?) and related questions. Given my experience in the LDS church, however, these issues just aren’t that important to the work of the kingdom. I have served in a variety of callings that are administrative as well as some that focus on ministering. The real work in the kingdom, I think, is not figuring out what Brigham taught at the veil (or similar), but is found in serving those around us. It is amazing how many needs are not being met in people around us. Even in relatively affluent areas with people that seem to have their act together there are many that need help, attention, sustenance, or a friend, and aren’t getting it. So studying doctrine is important, certainly, but it is at the top of the Maslow-like religious hierarchy of important actions. The bottom level of deficiency is charity to and love for those around us. That is pure religion and without it the intricacies of doctrine don’t matter and with it, they also don’t matter, just in a different way.

My studies inform my Christian service and deepen my understanding of the importance of the work and teachings of Christ. They help me love my neighbor and God. They help me endure.

I have problems with Maslow.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by creekster

I enjoy greatly the discussions that take place here about doctrine (or lack thereof, right SU?) and related questions. Given my experience in the LDS church, however, these issues just aren’t that important to the work of the kingdom. I have served in a variety of callings that are administrative as well as some that focus on ministering. The real work in the kingdom, I think, is not figuring out what Brigham taught at the veil (or similar), but is found in serving those around us. It is amazing how many needs are not being met in people around us. Even in relatively affluent areas with people that seem to have their act together there are many that need help, attention, sustenance, or a friend, and aren’t getting it. So studying doctrine is important, certainly, but it is at the top of the Maslow-like religious hierarchy of important actions. The bottom level of deficiency is charity to and love for those around us. That is pure religion and without it the intricacies of doctrine don’t matter and with it, they also don’t matter, just in a different way.

As a matter of salvation, doctrine is only worthwhile to study to the end that it changes behavior. Conviction-based behavioral changes are what drive changes to character, and that is what will eventually make us like God.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

It's kind of funny, but it seems like it's only with church doctrine (and maybe television) that we seem to get lectured regarding spending too much time on the intricacies of the doctrine, and on how it's more important to focus on the basics, like service and faith.

Does this happen to people who are studying literature or who devour political writings?

It's almost like it's assumed that the people studying and discussing the intricacies of the gospel are neglecting the basics. It seems to me like the opposite should be the case - of course those people who are interested enough in the doctrines of the gospel are familiar with the basics - isn't it more likely that the people failing to live the basics are those who have no interest in learning about it whatsoever?

Or is it just a way that those who do not have the same level of interest in learning about it are trying to justify themselves by saying, "Well, he may know a lot more about the gospel, but at least I'm living it!"

And before you start calling me condescending, I don't claim to be a gospel intellectual (although I enjoy following the discussions), and I don't claim to be the most faithful LDS member, either. I have significant failings in both arenas. This is just an observation.

Sorry if this seemed like a lecture, as I didn't intend it as such. To the contrary, I was looking for responses along the lines of what you put here. My comment is really an outgrowth of my thoughts on the discrepancies we see in the recording of reveleation and doctrine. What is God trying to tell us? That is what we are trying to figure out. In my own life, I don't see the study of doctrine to be incompatible or mutually exclusive with charity to others, nor did I mean to present it here as such. But as I have gone through life, I can say that I don't find the study of doctrine to be the key to a rich spiritual life. It is a key to a satisfying understanding of my spiritual life, perhaps, but I don't feel compelled to answer all of the doctrinal questions, and my inability to answer them doesn't cause me to question my spiritual expereinces or the importance and value of service. This is clearly not a groundbreaking claim, but this is, after all, only a message board.

[Brian]

like paul said, everything will fail. faith, revelation, prophecy, doctrine. everything.

only charity will not fail.

[FMCoug]

[QUOTE=BarbaraGordon;87304Doctrinal exploration may be fun as an intellectual exercise. But for me personally, it is not the heart of faith or of the spiritual journey.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. For me personally, the stuff you all get into in the religion forum here is amusing/bemusing but that's about it. It's about how I act and implement the things I do understand that matters.