Pinewood Derby

[jay santos]

Fun stuff. I hear complaints about the competitive dads who rule the Pinewood Derby and I see both sides of it.

My son's first year on the Pinewood derby, I told him if he wants to, I can show him the principles on how to make a fast car, and he would have a good chance to win, but it would take some time. Or he could make it himself with no help and have fun but it probably wouldn't win. He chose to go for the fast car. We went together and visited the "Pinewood Doctor", an engineer I work with. He explained everything he was doing to my son. Explained the engineer principles of friction, weight distribution, etc. On the way home I talked to my son about what kind of education you need to become a good engineer and what kind of money you make, etc. He said he might want to become an engineer. And I tell him the way to prepare now is to focus on his math schoolwork--of course I tell him that for everything. So his car won the Pinewood derby and he was happy about it, but the pinnacle for me was the experience. He learned that math skills can transfer to something fun and cool. You can't beat that in a learning experience. We also had a good father/son connection while we talked and worked together.

So the next year I asked him the same question, and he said he'd rather just make his own car. So he did, and he tried to apply some of the principles he learned, but we didn't have the right equipment, and he finished next to last. But he still had fun.

So is it really so bad to have dads involved with their sons building Pinewood Derby?

[il Padrino Ute]

My son will race his car tonight in the Pinewood Derby. He did almost all of the work himself on the car, including the use of the coping saw to cut out the shape, the Dremel tool to refine the shape and all the sanding and painting. I only helped him with the use of the tools by close supervision and get the weight right.

He's proud of his car and so am I. At the weigh in, his looked like the only car that was made by an 8 year old boy.

As you mentioned, the point is to have fun. It should be a lot of fun.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

My son will race his car tonight in the Pinewood Derby. He did almost all of the work himself on the car, including the use of the coping saw to cut out the shape, the Dremel tool to refine the shape and all the sanding and painting. I only helped him with the use of the tools by close supervision and get the weight right.

He's proud of his car and so am I. At the weigh in, his looked like the only car that was made by an 8 year old boy.

As you mentioned, the point is to have fun. It should be a lot of fun.

Bravo, IPU.

When I was in Cub Scouts leadership, we made up a bunch of awards to give to the kids ("Best paint job", "Most unusual", etc.) so that the kids who did a great job on their cars got some recognition, regardless of how fast they were.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

As you mentioned, the point is to have fun. It should be a lot of fun.

But really is the point to have fun? Do our kids not have enough fun? Their lives are jam packed full of fun.

I think it's equally important for a kid to have a learning experience with his dad where he learns things like:

1. To succeed (win) in life you have to prepare well
2. Engineering, science, and math principles are at work in the design of a car
3. If you have to do something, you should study and consult with experts to get advice on how to proceed

I defend my position because going into the Pinewood a few years ago I wasn't sure if I should help or not. I didn't want to be a jerk, competitive dad spoiling fun for the kids. But it turned out to be an incredibly positive experience with my son, and at the end I realized I was silly to worry too much about being too competitive.

I think it's totally fine for you and your son to have the experience you had. I also think it's fine to have the experience I had. I don't think it's fine to rip on dads who got involved with their kids' pinewood derby car.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are indadequate..."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Bravo, IPU.

When I was in Cub Scouts leadership, we made up a bunch of awards to give to the kids ("Best paint job", "Most unusual", etc.) so that the kids who did a great job on their cars got some recognition, regardless of how fast they were.

I agree with this. And I also agree with deemphasizing the focus on "winning" the event. But at the same time I totally support dads who get involved helping their kids with something like this, if it is done as a team effort with the son learning as he goes.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Bravo, IPU.

When I was in Cub Scouts leadership, we made up a bunch of awards to give to the kids ("Best paint job", "Most unusual", etc.) so that the kids who did a great job on their cars got some recognition, regardless of how fast they were.

The Cub Scout leader in our stake does the same. He's terrific with the kids and they all love the guy. Our oldest boy loved his time in Cub Scouts because of this gentleman. All kids who participate get an award of some sort.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by jay santos

But really is the point to have fun? Do our kids not have enough fun? Their lives are jam packed full of fun.

I think it's equally important for a kid to have a learning experience with his dad where he learns things like:

1. To succeed (win) in life you have to prepare well
2. Engineering, science, and math principles are at work in the design of a car
3. If you have to do something, you should study and consult with experts to get advice on how to proceed

I defend my position because going into the Pinewood a few years ago I wasn't sure if I should help or not. I didn't want to be a jerk, competitive dad spoiling fun for the kids. But it turned out to be an incredibly positive experience with my son, and at the end I realized I was silly to worry too much about being too competitive.

I think it's totally fine for you and your son to have the experience you had. I also think it's fine to have the experience I had. I don't think it's fine to rip on dads who got involved with their kids' pinewood derby car.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are indadequate..."

I apologize if I made you feel that you went about it the wrong way by doing more for/with your son on his car; that wasn't my intent and I did a poor job communicating.

I have no problem with dads who are more involved in the building of the car. I gave my son the choice and he wanted to do more of the work himself. If he had asked, I certainly would have done more of the work. He's such a "hands on" kind of kid that he wanted to do it himself.

[ute4ever]

When I was in a family ward a few years back, my elders quorum planned a Pinewood Derby for the members of the quorum, not their kids. But it was canceled because only two people made cars. I guess the idea lacked the maxim of "my kid can beat up your kid."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

When I was in a family ward a few years back, my elders quorum planned a Pinewood Derby for the members of the quorum, not their kids. But it was canceled because only two people made cars. I guess the idea lacked the maxim of "my kid can beat up your kid."

Or maybe all the dads get involved with Pinewood Derby not because it's fun for them to build a car, or "my kid can beat up your kid", but maybe it's just to serve their child and sacrifice their time to spend some time with their boy and create a learning experience for them.

[Brian]

my brothers ward had a dad's derby, and it was well attended and a lot of fun. I wish our ward would do that.
my dad really got into it and introduced me to the concept of graphite. we even went up to one of his labs because they had a precision grinder and we ground the wheels perfectly round.

Now, when it was my little brothers turn, my dad was the bishop and never around, so I got to help him with the car. I talked him up on a fool-proof way to win the thing. "The key to any winning design Benny, is the bridge".
So, I had him make a car that looked like the attached illustration.
The red lines are the air flow around such a design.
"You see Benny, the air will go up over the car, accelerate down the back of the car, get sucked into the inner void, circle around and then actually push the car faster and faster".
He almost felt guilty, like he was cheating with his novel "air-flow" design.
His fellow cubbers mocked his bridge, but he confidently place his engineering marvel a top the track and secretly eyed the first place trophy.

Last place.