Why do you believe the way you do?

[RockyBalboa]

Politically I mean.

For example I have some questions on the board with those with liberal leanings. And no I don't intend this to be a torch session where I'm gonna freak out and disagree with everything you say.

In fact, I'll refrain from responding and just read the responses because I'm genuinely curious how and why liberals believe the way they do on certain subjects.

For example:

Why do you believe in Universal socialized medicine?

Why do you believe in abortion rights?

Why do you believe in more taxes?

Now of course this is assuming that the liberals on the board believe and agree with those issues.

I'm just curious WHY you believe that way? Again,,no trolling from me and I won't argue,,,I'm just genuinely curious behind what makes you believe and tick that way? And if as a liberal you don't believe in those things, then that's fine too, but it's widely assumed that most liberals do believe in those things.

Do you believe that way because of religion, were you raised to believe that way, or a variety of other reasons. Could be a combination of them.

I'm curious at the thought processes behind those beliefs.

[Venkman]

Not a liberal, but I'll answer anyway...

Raised Republican through and through. Mom taught me that communism and socialism are bad and democrats are closer to socialism than republicans so we're republicans. I still pretty much buy that BTW.

Flirted with leftism/socialism post-mission cause I was feeling all compassionate. Realized it was bogus and a lie and moved further right than my parents ever were/are.

Books that have influenced my politics: The Proper Role of Government by Ezra Taft Benson, Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater, Free to Choose by Milton Friedman, The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek, and None Dare Call it Treason.

I'm pretty much a conservative libertarian right now, but I'm very jaded to politics after seeing how Republicans owning all branches of the Fed Gov didn't deliver smaller government, more federalism, and great individual liberty as promised.

[BlueHair]

I'm not a Liberal either. Like Venkman, I think Liberals are too close to Communists. The Republican Party is fascist. The over-patriotic theme scares the crap out of me. That and the extreme religiousness of the party. I consider myself Libertarian. Take the following quiz to see what you are: http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html It might surprise you!

But, that wasn't your question. The only thing I agree with on your list is the right to choose abortion. I don't think that abortion is "right", but I don't think it's a decision for government to make on our behalf. I also think that a person knows if they should be a parent or not. Ideally, a person would have the kid and give it up for adoption. That's not realistic though. If the mother is forced to carry a baby she doesn't want, I doubt she'll take the kind of care necessary for a healthy pregnancy. Sad but true.

[Archaea]

Rather than be fiscally astute, why is it good policy to increase revenues through increased levies on the incomes of the populace?

Of course, I wager the answer will never be produced: it is due to the fact that politicians want to give the voting public everything it wants, does not wish to offend any voting block and can do so only if sufficient revenues exist to fund projects. More cynically, it's so that politicians can solidify power bases, while encapsulating the uninitiated middle classes, thereby increasing their actual and perceived power.

High taxation is one of the primary indicaitons of tyranny. Once tyranny is upon us, it is incumbant upon us to revolt to overthrow tyranny.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I'm not a Liberal either.

You guys are forgetting how little it takes to be a "liberal" here.

Rocky, your questions as posed don't exactly apply to me, but I'll be happy to tell you why I'm moving away from the "compassionate conservative" Republicans.

I'll think on it first, though, so as to come across at least passably coherent.

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I'll think on it first, though, so as to come across at least passably coherent.

Why? We never do.

[Detroitdad]

I think that this is actually a difficult question to answer in less than a couple hours, but I'll give it a shot.

My parents were moderate Republicans and we talked a lot about politics, history and current events, in part because of my fathers profession (military) and also because we all found that to be interesting. In my house you were welcome to have any opinion, as long as you could defend it.

In addition, my parents inculcated in us a hierarchy of values, based upon religion. Their emphasis was on a disaffection for materialism, placing the comfort of others above your own, and compassion, understanding and service toward others. (My mother is a true believer of these concepts in all of their permutations and consequently is a true ascetic). Any time one of us said anything that could in any way be construed as judgmental my dad was likely to go ballistic.

I first started to realize that I was leaning left in high school as a result of my studies and the values that I placed a primary emphasis on. I value individual rights over the state in personal matters (generally) and collective benefit slightly over individual freedom in economics. Over time, it my brothers and sister also made the same discovery. All of us are left wingers.

After that about my background I will say that those thoughts and reactions still guide me. But I now realize that politics do not exist in a vaccum and that all ideology and values need a substantial portion of pragmatism. Consequntly, as my knowledge of politics and policy has grown I have come to see politics as a series of tradeoffs and estimations of value. I will demonstrate by addressing the examples that you provided.

First, universal healthcare. My heart says that health care is without question a right. All persons ought to be entitled to have adequate health care to help relieve pain, prolong life, and prevent illness. However, my mind knows that a market approach provides benefits as well, in driving innovation, creating incentives to provide high quality care to pursue profit, etc. My judgment looks at what we have in the country and says it is a mess, because the market does not fully address the needs of the society and because a person has great difficulty in opting out of the system the market is ferociously inefficient. The pragmatist says that it must be possible to cover everyone to some minimal degree, preserve high end care, and allow innovation to continue, and bring down cost. I think that the answer is in looking to rationing, preventive care, and lowering administrative costs. I don't think that allowing the market to persist in inefficency will benefit anyone.

As far as abortion I believe that abortion is only appropriate to protect the life and health of the mother. I support states rights to legislate this issue.

I don't believe in more taxes. I am not against raising taxes in all circumstances. I am for the government living within its means and I am definitely in favor of greater disclosure about where all the money goes. I am in favor of income tax brackets, where higher earners pay a higher percentage of their incomes in taxes than others because I believe that the public good is more important than artificially low tax rates, but I want the money spent responsibly.

I hope this gives some insight into the mind of that most alien of characters, a white, heterosexual, sports-loving, male liberal.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

In addition, my parents inculcated in us a hierarchy of values, based upon religion. Their emphasis was on a disaffection for materialism, placing the comfort of others above your own, and compassion, understanding and service toward others.

For me, this is the heart of it. As much as the Republicans have tried to pass themselves off as "compassionate conservatives," they've made it clear that their priorities have nothing to do with those issues which make us compassionate. Now, they may really believe in feeding the hungry, housing the poor, helping the handicapped, what have you, but it's not their priority right now.

I'm still a registered Republican, but I'm not sure how long that'll be the case.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

For me, this is the heart of it. As much as the Republicans have tried to pass themselves off as "compassionate conservatives," they've made it clear that their priorities have nothing to do with those issues which make us compassionate. Now, they may really believe in feeding the hungry, housing the poor, helping the handicapped, what have you, but it's not their priority right now.

I'm still a registered Republican, but I'm not sure how long that'll be the case.

I am kind of a partisan so I agree with what you say, but I must in the interest of truth, say that Democrats are not always better. This is one of the reasons that I do not like the two party system, in this system, it is hard to hold politicians accountable.

Also, I think in looking at my massive response I realize that I nicely staked the moral high ground. I don't think that liberalism is inherently more moral than conservatism, just that it hits my sense of morals, which are neither more or less valid than others hierarchies of morals. I think that I may have also given short shrift to my belief that liberalism is better at governance since more often liberalism makes what in my judgment are the wiser tradeoffs.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

I think that this is actually a difficult question to answer in less than a couple hours, but I'll give it a shot.

My parents were moderate Republicans and we talked a lot about politics, history and current events, in part because of my fathers profession (military) and also because we all found that to be interesting. In my house you were welcome to have any opinion, as long as you could defend it.

In addition, my parents inculcated in us a hierarchy of values, based upon religion. Their emphasis was on a disaffection for materialism, placing the comfort of others above your own, and compassion, understanding and service toward others. (My mother is a true believer of these concepts in all of their permutations and consequently is a true ascetic). Any time one of us said anything that could in any way be construed as judgmental my dad was likely to go ballistic.

I first started to realize that I was leaning left in high school as a result of my studies and the values that I placed a primary emphasis on. I value individual rights over the state in personal matters (generally) and collective benefit slightly over individual freedom in economics. Over time, it my brothers and sister also made the same discovery. All of us are left wingers.

After that about my background I will say that those thoughts and reactions still guide me. But I now realize that politics do not exist in a vaccum and that all ideology and values need a substantial portion of pragmatism. Consequntly, as my knowledge of politics and policy has grown I have come to see politics as a series of tradeoffs and estimations of value. I will demonstrate by addressing the examples that you provided.

First, universal healthcare. My heart says that health care is without question a right. All persons ought to be entitled to have adequate health care to help relieve pain, prolong life, and prevent illness. However, my mind knows that a market approach provides benefits as well, in driving innovation, creating incentives to provide high quality care to pursue profit, etc. My judgment looks at what we have in the country and says it is a mess, because the market does not fully address the needs of the society and because a person has great difficulty in opting out of the system the market is ferociously inefficient. The pragmatist says that it must be possible to cover everyone to some minimal degree, preserve high end care, and allow innovation to continue, and bring down cost. I think that the answer is in looking to rationing, preventive care, and lowering administrative costs. I don't think that allowing the market to persist in inefficency will benefit anyone.

As far as abortion I believe that abortion is only appropriate to protect the life and health of the mother. I support states rights to legislate this issue.

I don't believe in more taxes. I am not against raising taxes in all circumstances. I am for the government living within its means and I am definitely in favor of greater disclosure about where all the money goes. I am in favor of income tax brackets, where higher earners pay a higher percentage of their incomes in taxes than others because I believe that the public good is more important than artificially low tax rates, but I want the money spent responsibly.

I hope this gives some insight into the mind of that most alien of characters, a white, heterosexual, sports-loving, male liberal.

Fantastic response. I truly appreciate it and hope others will follow your lead in responding.