Transgender children - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 05-09-2008, 05:32 PM

NPR has done two stories on transgender children, and how families have grappled with the issue. It is fascinating, touching, and heartrending at times. I highly recommend listening to them (not reading them).

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90247842

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90273278

The reason I put this under the religion category is because this goes to the Proclamation on the Family, and the policies the church has for transgendered and transsexuals.

For me, it is definitely not a black and white issue.

creekster · 05-09-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Animals are actually changing sex due to Atrazine usage in the US as a fertilizer (even though it is produced by an EU company, it's use has been banned in the EU). This has been scientifically documented by university researchers.

The Republican-directed EPA is fine with this of course and says there is no risk to humans.

(Please God, let Obama beat McCain for this reason too.)

What does "changing sex" mean?

SeattleUte · 05-09-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

NPR has done two stories on transgender children, and how families have grappled with the issue. It is fascinating, touching, and heartrending at times. I highly recommend listening to them (not reading them).

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90247842

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90273278

The reason I put this under the religion category is because this goes to the Proclamation on the Family, and the policies the church has for transgendered and transsexuals.

For me, it is definitely not a black and white issue.

You beat me to it. I was going to ask you about this. I heard this last night on NPR and was shocked. Anymore, I'm rarely shocked. But this shocked me. I think the father interviewed is very convincing. My question to you is: Is this mainstream? Arguably mainstream?

SeattleUte · 05-09-2008, 05:53 PM

In a nutshell, parents/counselors/the child decide that while this is a male/female child per the genitals, he/she is trapped in a female/male body. This diagnosis must occur before puberty. Then if the condition is diagnosed, they give medication to block puberty until the child is of age to decide. If the child decides to change sex, he/she takes hormones, estrogen or testosterone, appropriate to change the sex. If you do this before puberty you wind up with a sex change that is essentially flawless after surgery, e.g., no female unnaturally tall with big hands and brows and need to keep taking hormones to avoid facial hair. And you don't have, say, a true female adolescent experience the horror of turning into a physical male.

MikeWaters · 05-09-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You beat me to it. I was going to ask you about this. I heard this last night on NPR and was shocked. Anymore, I'm rarely shocked. But this shocked me. I think the father interviewed is very convincing. My question to you is: Is this mainstream? Arguably mainstream?

did you listen to the first one? the reporter says that most therapists who deal with this focus on trying to get the child to accept the gender that corresponds with their sex. The main therapist in the piece who is a proponent of this says, "If a child who was black, came in and said that they were white, the therapist would try to help them deal with being black, and hopefully accept that." (paraphrased).

I don't know the politics on this, or what is generally felt bout this, because 1) it seems to be very rare and 2) I don't personally deal with it or study it.

SeattleUte · 05-09-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

"If a child who was black, came in and said that they were white, the therapist would try to help them deal with being black, and hopefully accept that." (paraphrased).

I have a problem with this analogy. Ideally, skin color should not generate a self-image of being "black" or "white." Society imposes these perceptions, right? In other words, feeling black or white is a cultural phenomenon, for better or worse. Not so with gender; we who have had boys and girls see this from literally the git go.

I thought the father was convincing when he said, in response to the point that children may be too young to make a decision like his "son" made, choosing to start wearing dresses and have puberty blocked: "When did you realize you were male [or female]?"

MikeWaters · 05-09-2008, 06:02 PM

Gender is a malleable construct at a young age. That's pretty clear from the report.

Was gender malleable in this guy's son? Not very. So does the Father then extrapolate from his son/daughter to the entire universe? Yes. Does SU latch on to the Father's over-reaching extrapolation? Of course. Is an attack on the church impending from SU? Bet the farm.

SeattleUte · 05-09-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Gender is a malleable construct at a young age. That's pretty clear from the report.

Was gender malleable in this guy's son? Not very. So does the Father then extrapolate from his son/daughter to the entire universe? Yes. Does SU latch on to the Father's over-reaching extrapolation? Of course. Is an attack on the church impending from SU? Bet the farm.

Do you allow religion-ingrained predilections to affect your professional judgments? I hope not. Nothing is scarier than a shrink who mixes religion and profession.

SeattleUte · 05-09-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Male fish and frogs and etc actually grow ovaries and lose the ability to produce sperm. Google feminization and Atrazine or check out the Wikipedia article on Atrazine, part of which I quote below:

Atrazine has been shown in some experiments by UC Berkeley biologist Tyrone Hayes to be a teratogen causing demasculinization in male frogs exposed to small concentrations. Under the effects of Atrazine, male frogs were found to have greatly increased occurrences of either malformed gonads, or testicular gonads which contain non-degenerate eggs.[10] Hayes also found that atrazine causes male frogs' testosterone levels to dip below those of females.[9] Effects were however significantly reduced in high concentrations, as is consistent with other teratogens affecting the endocrine system, such as estradiol.[citation needed] The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and its independent Scientific Advisory Panel (SAP) examined all available studies on this topic — including Hayes' work — and concluded that there is "currently insufficient data" to determine if atrazine affects amphibian development. Hayes, formerly part of the SAP panel, resigned in 2000 to continue studies independently.[11] Hayes notes that all of the studies that failed to conclude that atrazine caused hermaphroditism were plagued by poor experimental controls and were funded by Syngenta, the company that produces the chemical.[12]

Get this outa here. It's a hijack.

SeattleUte · 05-09-2008, 06:06 PM

Cue Rogan. Where are you, my man?

05-09-2008, 05:32 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Transgender children NPR has done two stories on transgender children, and how families have grappled with the issue. It is fascinating, touching, and heartrending at times. I highly recommend *listening* to them (not reading them). http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90247842 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90273278 The reason I put this under the religion category is because this goes to the Proclamation on the Family, and the policies the church has for transgendered and transsexuals. For me, it is definitely not a black and white issue.

05-09-2008, 05:53 PM	#4
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	In a nutshell, parents/counselors/the child decide that while this is a male/female child per the genitals, he/she is trapped in a female/male body. This diagnosis must occur before puberty. Then if the condition is diagnosed, they give medication to block puberty until the child is of age to decide. If the child decides to change sex, he/she takes hormones, estrogen or testosterone, appropriate to change the sex. If you do this before puberty you wind up with a sex change that is essentially flawless after surgery, e.g., no female unnaturally tall with big hands and brows and need to keep taking hormones to avoid facial hair. And you don't have, say, a true female adolescent experience the horror of turning into a physical male. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

05-09-2008, 06:06 PM	#10
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Cue Rogan. Where are you, my man? __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

05-09-2008, 06:02 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Gender is a malleable construct at a young age. That's pretty clear from the report. Was gender malleable in this guy's son? Not very. So does the Father then extrapolate from his son/daughter to the entire universe? Yes. Does SU latch on to the Father's over-reaching extrapolation? Of course. Is an attack on the church impending from SU? Bet the farm.