Question for you California folks

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have been reading about how we stole California from the Mexicans. The "Oso" mob, John C. Fremont, etc. Not exactly a glorious story. I am curious how this is presented to kids in grade school. Do they try to glorify the account, or do they tell the story straight up?

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I have been reading about how we stole California from the Mexicans. The "Oso" mob, John C. Fremont, etc. Not exactly a glorious story. I am curious how this is presented to kids in grade school. Do they try to glorify the account, or do they tell the story straight up?

I don't ever remember it being taught straight up. One of those things I learned the truth about as an adult. Then again, that was the 70's so perhaps times have changed.

[TripletDaddy]

I am not sure it was really discussed in grade school. The only thing I can remember from elementary school re: Mexico is that we had tamales in class for Cinco de Mayo, we would take an annual field trip to Olvera Street (where I purchased my first velcro wallet....a skull with handcuffs hanging from its eyesockets and the words "Motley Crue" on it), and everyone looked forward to our annual scout trip to Rosarito Beach, where we would buy and light roman candles.

It was not until late in high school that I finally learned that Cinco de Mayo is not the "Mexican Fourth of July," but rather a commemoration of a victory over the French. Mexican Independence Day is in September.

[8ballrollin]

I remember reading/studying about the Bear Flag revolt back in HS. There was a HC member in my stake who really knew his California history, once we were discussing the revolt and he quipped, "it was the last time something interesting happened in Sonoma."

I think the "US stole Cali from Mexico" argument is a little disingenuous. It's like the Patwin never existed. Well, not very many of them did exist after small pox or the many waves of expeditions from Mexico/New Spain (see Anza, Moraga, etc.).

You must have read a lot about Kit Carson. He is fascinating character – an indian killer, for sure, but still fascinating. He's right out of a Cormic McCarthy novel.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by 8ballrollin

I remember reading/studying about the Bear Flag revolt back in HS. There was a HC member in my stake who really knew his California history, once we were discussing the revolt and he quipped, "it was the last time something interesting happened in Sonoma."

Well, to call it a "revolt" speaks volumes. Against what were they revolting? They were a small group of US expats on Mexican soil. They simply put together a mob and took over the town. There was no reasonable provocation, other than overall euphoria over the concept of "manifest destiny".

Originally Posted by 8ballrollin

I think the "US stole Cali from Mexico" argument is a little disingenuous. It's like the Patwin never existed. Well, not very many of them did exist after small pox or the many waves of expeditions from Mexico/New Spain (see Anza, Moraga, etc.).

They stole it from the Mexicans, who stole it from the Spanish, who stole it from the Native Americans.

Seriously, the entire Mexican War was nothing but a naked land grab. There was no provocation whatsoever. The soldiers were told to look for ways to stir things up so that they could come up with some sort of justification for the takeover. And the Mexicans surrendered so quickly it would have made the French blush with shame.

Don't get me wrong, I think it was inevitable and turned out to be a great thing for the inhabitants in the end (overall). It's just not exactly the most noble story in our history.

Originally Posted by 8ballrollin

You must have read a lot about Kit Carson. He is fascinating character – an indian killer, for sure, but still fascinating. He's right out of a Cormic McCarthy novel.

Yes, I am reading about Kit Carson. "Blood and Thunder" by Hampton Sides.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I am not sure it was really discussed in grade school. The only thing I can remember from elementary school re: Mexico is that we had tamales in class for Cinco de Mayo, we would take an annual field trip to Olvera Street (where I purchased my first velcro wallet....a skull with handcuffs hanging from its eyesockets and the words "Motley Crue" on it), and everyone looked forward to our annual scout trip to Rosarito Beach, where we would buy and light roman candles.

It was not until late in high school that I finally learned that Cinco de Mayo is not the "Mexican Fourth of July," but rather a commemoration of a victory over the French. Mexican Independence Day is in September.

Yeah we built missions and learned about Father Junipero Serra. And like DDD took our field trip each year to Oliveras Street and to San Buena Ventura Mission and then to the beach.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Well, to call it a "revolt" speaks volumes. Against what were they revolting? They were a small group of US expats on Mexican soil. They simply put together a mob and took over the town. There was no reasonable provocation, other than overall euphoria over the concept of "manifest destiny".



They stole it from the Mexicans, who stole it from the Spanish, who stole it from the Native Americans.

Seriously, the entire Mexican War was nothing but a naked land grab. There was no provocation whatsoever. The soldiers were told to look for ways to stir things up so that they could come up with some sort of justification for the takeover. And the Mexicans were surrendered so quickly it would have made the French blush with shame.

Don't get me wrong, I think it was inevitable and turned out to be a great thing for the inhabitants in the end (overall). It's just not exactly the most noble story in our history.



Yes, I am reading about Kit Carson. "Blood and Thunder" by Hampton Sides.

I'm very surprised at you Lebowski. What sort of imperialist are you? We stole the land fair and square and if they weren't up to the task of defending their stolen soil, well then it suited them just right.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Seriously, the entire Mexican War was nothing but a naked land grab. There was no provocation whatsoever. The soldiers were told to look for ways to stir things up so that they could come up with some sort of justification for the takeover. And the Mexicans surrendered so quickly it would have made the French blush with shame.

Couldn't agree more. Over this last Thanksgiving, we went to South Padre Island and while down there went and visited the Palo Alto battlefield near Brownsville. This was the site of the first battle of the war and they have a visitor's center as well as the battlefield with a hiking trail around it, etc.

They do a great job there of presenting both sides of the story and accurately portraying it IMO. Not surprising given the location. The rest of the week anytime I saw a Mexican (which was a lot) I felt kind of guilty.

Also, Mrs. FM tripped and fell and scraped up her knee on the hike so we have our own family story of being "wounded" at the battlefield. We were in a rental car and had no first aid kit and neither did the park rangers at the visitor's center. What's up with that?

[MikeWaters]

Keep a bandaid in your wallet. Next to the condom.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Keep a bandaid in your wallet. Next to the condom.

This required much more than a bandaid. In fact my 12 yo daughter and I had to help her walk back as she couldn't put much weight on that leg. It was some pretty nasty road rash. It was fine once we got to the next town and found somewhere we could buy the stuff we needed. I just thought it was kind of odd that park rangers at a visitor's center out in the middle of nowhere wouldn't have a first aid kit.