Boy, C. Hitchens is a douchebag - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Mormon Red Death · 11-26-2007, 04:50 PM

http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/fr/flyout

non sequitur · 11-26-2007, 05:22 PM

Do you disagree with Hitchens' argument, his tone, or both? While Hitchens is more caustic than he needs to be, his point is a valid one. Politicians should be accountable for their religious beliefs and shouldn't be surprised that people want to know exactly what they do and don't believe.

Mormon Red Death · 11-26-2007, 05:40 PM

his point is somewhat valid he just comes across like an asshole

Tex · 11-26-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Do you disagree with Hitchens' argument, his tone, or both? While Hitchens is more caustic than he needs to be, his point is a valid one. Politicians should be accountable for their religious beliefs and shouldn't be surprised that people want to know exactly what they do and don't believe.

I totally disagree. Religious beliefs are generally out-of-bounds for poltical office, except as it touches governance. Observe:

How does Romney feel about black and racism? Fair question.
Does Romney believe blacks were less valiant in the pre-existence? Out of bounds.
Would Romney consult the church prophet before making an important decision? Fair question.
Was the Garden of Eden in Missouri? Out of bounds.

Now, if Romney makes his beliefs the issue, for example if he went on the stump talking about the Garden of Eden, then it's fair game. Otherwise, I don't see what a man's private religious beliefs have to do with his eligibility for office.

Clark Addison · 11-26-2007, 06:29 PM

I like a lot of what Hitchens writes, and agree with him sometimes. However, there are some people who, whether you agree with him or not, are very likable. You'd be happy to sit down and have a drink with them.

Hitchens strikes me as the opposite, whether you agree with him or not, he's still an SOB.

tooblue · 11-26-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Do you disagree with Hitchens' argument, his tone, or both? While Hitchens is more caustic than he needs to be, his point is a valid one. Politicians should be accountable for their religious beliefs and shouldn't be surprised that people want to know exactly what they do and don't believe.

The reality is he does not expect Romney to be accountable for his religous beliefs but rather he expects him to entertain and even defend himself against bigotry ... for that's what it is, and it is born of the marriage of hate and ignorance.

His article is disdain and mockery, not journalism or sincere questioning. Therefore it is not valid.

non sequitur · 11-26-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblue

The reality is he does not expect Romney to be accountable for his religous beliefs but rather he expects him to entertain and even defend himself against bigotry ... for that's what it is, and it is born of the marriage of hate and ignorance.

His article is disdain and mockery, not journalism or sincere questioning. Therefore it is not valid.

His article is filled with disdain and mockery, but how can you say his point is not valid? If a candidate claims to receive personal revelation from God, isn't that relevant? Or, if he believes in the eventuality of the Apocalypse, isn't that also relevant? If I'm a bigot for being concerned whether a candidate might make decisions based on his view of God's will, then I'm happy to be a bigot.

woot · 11-26-2007, 07:34 PM

Hitchens has said some shockingly stupid things of late, and does seem generally come across as an abrasive person, but religion is absolutely not out of bounds in political discourse so I absolutely agree with him on this. After 7 years of George "God told me to invade Iraq" Bush, religion is a pretty important issue. The problem seems to be that everybody wants to make sure we get yet another president into office that listens to the voices in his head, when what we need is somebody who values reason over superstition.

It'd be fun if this Romney candidacy is what makes the church finally come up with an explanation for its racism, but I don't see it happening.

Tex · 11-26-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woot

Hitchens has said some shockingly stupid things of late, and does seem generally come across as an abrasive person, but religion is absolutely not out of bounds in political discourse so I absolutely agree with him on this. After 7 years of George "God told me to invade Iraq" Bush, religion is a pretty important issue. The problem seems to be that everybody wants to make sure we get yet another president into office that listens to the voices in his head, when what we need is somebody who values reason over superstition.

Heh. Sometimes I wonder what it would it be like to take a tour through the weird world you live in, woot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by woot

It'd be fun if this Romney candidacy is what makes the church finally come up with an explanation for its racism, but I don't see it happening.

In the event of a Romney candidancy, I envision the church going completely mute on all related issues, except to say that they are not taking sides.

In fact, I think someone else around here correctly observed that were Romney to actually be elected, the church would move into a period of unprecedented non-participation in politics of any kind.

woot · 11-26-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Heh. Sometimes I wonder what it would it be like to take a tour through the weird world you live in, woot.

How stupid of you to say. Do you have any actual disagreement or were you just looking to insult me?

11-26-2007, 04:50 PM	#1
Mormon Red Death Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clinton Township, MI Posts: 3,126	Boy, C. Hitchens is a douchebag http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/fr/flyout __________________ Its all about the suit

11-26-2007, 05:22 PM	#2
non sequitur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,964	Do you disagree with Hitchens' argument, his tone, or both? While Hitchens is more caustic than he needs to be, his point is a valid one. Politicians should be accountable for their religious beliefs and shouldn't be surprised that people want to know exactly what they do and don't believe. __________________ ...You've been under attack for days, there's a soldier down, he's wounded, gangrene's setting in, 'Who's used all the penicillin?' 'Oh, Mark Paxson sir, he's got knob rot off of some tart.'" - Gareth Keenan

11-26-2007, 05:40 PM	#3
Mormon Red Death Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clinton Township, MI Posts: 3,126	his point is somewhat valid he just comes across like an asshole __________________ Its all about the suit

11-26-2007, 06:29 PM	#5
Clark Addison Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 638	I like a lot of what Hitchens writes, and agree with him sometimes. However, there are some people who, whether you agree with him or not, are very likable. You'd be happy to sit down and have a drink with them. Hitchens strikes me as the opposite, whether you agree with him or not, he's still an SOB.

11-26-2007, 07:34 PM	#8
woot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 1,502	Hitchens has said some shockingly stupid things of late, and does seem generally come across as an abrasive person, but religion is absolutely not out of bounds in political discourse so I absolutely agree with him on this. After 7 years of George "God told me to invade Iraq" Bush, religion is a pretty important issue. The problem seems to be that everybody wants to make sure we get yet another president into office that listens to the voices in his head, when what we need is somebody who values reason over superstition. It'd be fun if this Romney candidacy is what makes the church finally come up with an explanation for its racism, but I don't see it happening.