It's time to end the insanity of "thee" "thine" "thou"

[MikeWaters]

and all that poppycock.

We are taught, from a young age, that the purpose of using this language in prayer is to show "respect" for our Heavenly Father.

However the original purpose was to convey intimacy--that is you used the language that you would use for a family member which was "thee" "thine" "thou".

So now the language is being used for the EXACT OPPOSITE reason that it was first used. We now use it to DISTANCE ourselves from God.

The best prayer is the honest unadorned prayer. This language is an impediment.

I will never instruct another person to use this language in prayer.

[dallas dan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

and all that poppycock.

We are taught, from a young age, that the purpose of using this language in prayer is to show "respect" for our Heavenly Father.

However the original purpose was to convey intimacy--that is you used the language that you would use for a family member which was "thee" "thine" "thou".

So now the language is being used for the EXACT OPPOSITE reason that it was first used. We now use it to DISTANCE ourselves from God.

The best prayer is the honest unadorned prayer. This language is an impediment.

I will never instruct another person to use this language in prayer.

I dissagree. I think it shows a level of respect. If you only speak this way to God, then it shows humility. Did you ever read the literature given to you in the MTC on this very subject? If so, do you dissagree? I always found it very appropriate to speak to God in a different tone, than when addressing my fellow man.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by dallas dan

I dissagree. I think it shows a level of respect. If you only speak this way to God, then it shows humility. Did you ever read the literature given to you in the MTC on this very subject? If so, do you dissagree? I always found it very appropriate to speak to God in a different tone, than when addressing my fellow man.

Do you address your own earthy father in a very formal way in order to show him respect? Or do you use the language that is most familiar and intimate?

Of course you use the language that is most familiar and intimate. Because that's how you convey your love.

Love & Intimacy >>>>> formalized respect.

God is not a distant being to be respected. He is your Father and an intimate confidant.

And this thee/thine business is Pharisaical.

[dallas dan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Do you address your own earthy father in a very formal way in order to show him respect? Or do you use the language that is most familiar and intimate?

Of course you use the language that is most familiar and intimate. Because that's how you convey your love.

Love & Intimacy >>>>> formalized respect.

God is not a distant being to be respected. He is your Father and an intimate confidant.

And this thee/thine business is Pharisaical.

I understand the point. Then again, sometimes I don't show the level of respect to my earthly father that he deserves. We have been in lots of fights, and cussing matches. Never really had one of those with God.

I guess I have always tried to communicate with God in a very respectful way, because I am trying so hard to open those lines of communication. When I pray, I really want the spirit to be there to direct my prays, and by speaking respectfully I feel it more. Maybe I am tricking myself. Who knows!

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by dallas dan

I understand the point. Then again, sometimes I don't show the level of respect to my earthly father that he deserves. We have been in lots of fights, and cussing matches. Never really had one of those with God.

I guess I have always tried to communicate with God in a very respectful way, because I am trying so hard to open those lines of communication. When I pray, I really want the spirit to be there to direct my prays, and by speaking respectfully I feel it more. Maybe I am tricking myself. Who knows!

change to what I am suggesting and report back whether things got better or worse or stayed the same.

[il Padrino Ute]

I believe God doesn't care how we address him, just so long as we do address him sincerely. He knows our intent and that's all that really matters.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

and all that poppycock.

We are taught, from a young age, that the purpose of using this language in prayer is to show "respect" for our Heavenly Father.

However the original purpose was to convey intimacy--that is you used the language that you would use for a family member which was "thee" "thine" "thou".

So now the language is being used for the EXACT OPPOSITE reason that it was first used. We now use it to DISTANCE ourselves from God.

The best prayer is the honest unadorned prayer. This language is an impediment.

I will never instruct another person to use this language in prayer.

Isn't it similarly odd that the Book of Mormon is written in a kind of pseudo old english?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Isn't it similarly odd that the Book of Mormon is written in a kind of pseudo old english?

t/j

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

and all that poppycock.

We are taught, from a young age, that the purpose of using this language in prayer is to show "respect" for our Heavenly Father.

However the original purpose was to convey intimacy--that is you used the language that you would use for a family member which was "thee" "thine" "thou".

So now the language is being used for the EXACT OPPOSITE reason that it was first used. We now use it to DISTANCE ourselves from God.

The best prayer is the honest unadorned prayer. This language is an impediment.

I will never instruct another person to use this language in prayer.

Dallin Oaks clarified all this in a talk in the mid-90's on the Language of Prayer. He referred to the words' roots as being the familiar, colloquial form and embraced them as serving that purpose.

He made it clear that God hears all honest prayers, regardless of their phraseology, and that people unfamiliar with the proper language should not be made to feel ashamed because of it. But he also indicated that as we mature in gospel understanding, there is an expectation that we use the appropriate terms as we have been taught.

http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/me...____&hideNav=1

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

Dallin Oaks clarified all this in a talk in the mid-90's on the Language of Prayer. He referred to the words' roots as being the familiar, colloquial form and embraced them as serving that purpose.

He made it clear that God hears all honest prayers, regardless of their phraseology, and that people unfamiliar with the proper language should not be made to feel ashamed because of it. But he also indicated that as we mature in gospel understanding, there is an expectation that we use the appropriate terms as we have been taught.

http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/me...____&hideNav=1

This is akin to someone from the IRS justifying the convoluted tax code.

I'm an American who speaks American English, and I am used to use non-American English in prayer, because why? Because they are familiar and colloquial?

LOLOLOL.

It will probably take another generation to root this out.