It's time to end the insanity of "thee" "thine" "thou"

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So what sort of arcane language do non-English Mormons use to make their prayers more respectful?

Can you point me to a single source where this is recommended?

If it is not recommended, why would this only be the case for English?

Call a spade a spade. It's tradition. It's our culture. It has nothing to do with what God wants.

In Thai, the Mormons pray in semi rachasaap - the most formal form of language that is used when speaking of or with the king. I say it's semi rachasaap because many Thai's don't know the entire formal language and thus pray with a mix of formal and colloquial. Prayers in Thai are made way more formal than prayers in English. Depending on how knowledgeable the person is, they can practically make the prayer in a whole different language. Of course, some missionaries liked to show off and see how flowery they could make their prayers.

Interestingly, if you read the wikipedia article about Thai you'll see that rachasaap is heavily based on Khmer (Cambodian). The reason that it's interesting is that many Thais consider Laos, Cambodians, Burmese, and other denizens of Southeast Asian beneath the Thais.

In Tagalog they pray a bit more formally as well. They use more complex conjugations and insert the polite particle (po) a lot more but it's not as dramatic as Thai prayers.

Those are the only two languages (besides English) that I know how to pray in.

[MikeWaters]

In Micronesia, they used flowerly languange in prayer. But this was not specific to Mormonism, obviously. Prayers among the members were modeled on their flowery Catholic/Protestant prayers.

Mastery of oration and language trump honesty and sincerity.

[Archaea]

In German, French and Spanish, and I believe in Italian, familiar you is used, not a poetic you, as has been suggested in English.

I use mostly the poetic you suggested out of habit. However, I understand Mike's point, and find it odd we emphasize something that is not common across the board.

How honorific do we go to pray in Japanese?

Chinese doesn't have the distinction, and I don't know enough Arabic or Hebrew to determine the formality or informality.

From what I can tell, some of our leaders seem to like the formality of 16th century English speech.

There seems to be a tension created, on one hand respect is warranted, but on the other hand intimacy is needed and some artifices created respect rob the circumstances of intimacy. Which is most important? Respect or intimacy if one must be sacrificed?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

FWIW, I call President Hinckley "Gordo".

Well President Hinckley is a priesthood leader and there can never be any intimacy or direct conversation because of the level of formality attached to it. Do advocate that we simply cower and fear our Heavenly Father, as we would in abject humility without intimacy?

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Chinese doesn't have the distinction, and I don't know enough Arabic or Hebrew to determine the formality or informality.

Chinese has the formal "nin" instead of the informal "ni." It is taught to use the formal during prayers.

[Tex]

In all this talk of "fear" and "respect" has the point been lost that terms' roots are in the familiar?

[FMCoug]

I think we start using that language in our posts, to show proper respect for Mike.

We are grateful to thee MikeWaters for having brought forth Cougarguard, a place of refuge from the tyranny of CougarBoard.

And so forth.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I believe God doesn't care how we address him, just so long as we do address him sincerely. He knows our intent and that's all that really matters.

Exactly.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Chinese has the formal "nin" instead of the informal "ni." It is taught to use the formal during prayers.

But I rarely heard Chinese use it. Of course, my Chinese is so bad, I probably heard it and was proud I knew it.

[Mindfulcoug]

This thread reminded me of a very famous poem “Moses and the Shepherd”
by Jalal al-Din Rumi. one of the most prominent iranian muslim poet living in (1207-1273)

Moses heard a shepherd on the road praying

"God.. where are you? I want to help you, to fix your shoes
and comb your hair. I want to wash your clothes, to kiss your
little hands and feet when it’s time for you to go to bed.
i want to sweep your room and keep it neat.God, my sheep
and goats are yours. All I can say, remembering you,
is ayyyy and ahhhhhhhhhhh.”

Moses could stand it no longer.

"Who are you talking to?The one who made us,and made earth and sky! Don’t talk about shoes and socks with God! Such blasphemous familiarity sounds like you’re chatting with your uncles.
Use appropriate terms! Body-and-birth language are not right for addressing the origin,not for God!"

The shepherd repented and tore his clothes and sighed and wandered out into the desert....

A sudden revelation Came then to Moses ...God’s voice

"You have separated me from one of my own... Did you come as a Prophet to unite,or to sever?
I have given each being a separate and unique way of seeing and knowing and saying that knowledge.
What seems wrong to you is right for him.What is poison to one is honey to someone else.
Purity and impurity, sloth and diligence in worship these mean nothing to me. I am apart from all that. Ways of worshiping are not to be ranked as better or worse than one another... God began speaking ...."

deeper mysteries to Moses. Vision and words, Moses ran after the shepherd
.....finally caught up with him.

"I was wrong. God has revealed to me that there are no rules for worship.
Say whatever and however your loving tells you to.
Your sweet blasphemy is the truest devotion"

Whenever you speak praise or thanksgiving to God, it’s always like this dear shepherd’s simplicity. When you eventually see through the veils to how things really are, you will keep saying again “This is certainly not like we thought it was!

Event:http://www.focol.org/fvuuf/sermons/I...i_Mystics.html