An example of impressive Christian charitable effort

[MikeWaters]

As I think about this, the main reason it does not and probably cannot happen in the LDS church, is because of lay clergy.

Running these kinds of things, and sustaining them, takes committed professionals and professional clergy.

Imagine the handoffs that would be required from bishop to bishop, stake president to stake president. Imagine being called to run such an effort. It would be more intensive than being a Seventy.

That's why we cut checks, make shipments, clean yards, make casseroles. As an organization, we are not built to make any sort of sustained charitable effort. We are best off, I suppose, cutting checks to churches who do the Lord's work.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Paying for temporary housing is not nearly the same thing, in terms of effort and service. The average member probably never even knows it happened, much less is involved in giving that service.

How does one access this service? We talk about the hoops that people have to jump through to get help. Seems like finding a Mormon bishop is a pretty dang big hoop to jump through. In other words, accessibility is terrible in such a system. And also inefficient.

It is painless however, in that it involves no longterm commitment, and no use of members time.

I guess you would have a good argument if the Provo police weren't collecting dead frozen bodies off the streets (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Look, if you want to work with them, then go out and do it. Nothing contrains you or any LDS from doing so. But to conclude that the LDS apporach is less worthy or Christlike becasue it doesn't agree with the model you prefer is inaccurate. IF you don't like it, go do something about it instead of coming here and squawking. Pray in secret, not on the street corner.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by smokymountainrain

It's always fun to compare and compete to see which churches provide the best assistance to the needy. Very Christlike, indeed.

Again, I don't have a huge problem with wards not doing much service. I'm stretched thin as it is. Last thing I need is another assignment.

I just don't think we have the right to claim that we are the most Christ-like and do the most service, as has been claimed in my ward.

That's where the Rameumpton is.

If we have to put an asterisk by "by your fruits you shall know them*" then so be it.

*Not all fruits are equal.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

This is the church that supports the homeless shelter:

http://www.firstdallas.org/

Here is their mission to help an orphanage in Peru.
http://peru2007.wordpress.com/

Here is what they do in terms of charity in addition:



http://www.firstdallas.org/Missions/

I don't know how big the congregation is. Obviously much larger than a ward.

But I wonder if you compared the charitable efforts of a number of wards equal to the membership of this church, how they would compare against this church.

I wonder.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....29472158.html

About 10,000 members or about three stakes worth of LDS. So about $150-$200 per member per year to "missions". Unclear how this would correlate with LDS fast offerings or tithing.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

Look, if you want to work with them, then go out and do it. Nothing contrains you or any LDS from doing so. But to conclude that the LDS apporach is less worthy or Christlike becasue it doesn't agree with the model you prefer is inaccurate. IF you don't like it, go do something about it instead of coming here and squawking. Pray in secret, not on the street corner.

If I'm ever called as a General Authority, you will know that it is by God's mandate that I make change happen.

God can read my posts. If he wants to make it happen, he will make it happen.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

As I think about this, the main reason it does not and probably cannot happen in the LDS church, is because of lay clergy.

Running these kinds of things, and sustaining them, takes committed professionals and professional clergy.

Imagine the handoffs that would be required from bishop to bishop, stake president to stake president. Imagine being called to run such an effort. It would be more intensive than being a Seventy.

That's why we cut checks, make shipments, clean yards, make casseroles. As an organization, we are not built to make any sort of sustained charitable effort. We are best off, I suppose, cutting checks to churches who do the Lord's work.

You are simply wrong about this. I know for certain that in my stake there are many instacnes of long term service taking place. We take care of our own, even our hot-headed, complaining young professionals, if they need it. It is apporached in a very different manner than the evangelicals, but it is nonetheless achieved.

[smokymountainrain]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Again, I don't have a huge problem with wards not doing much service. I'm stretched thin as it is. Last thing I need is another assignment.

I just don't think we have the right to claim that we are the most Christ-like and do the most service, as has been claimed in my ward.

That's where the Rameumpton is.

If we have to put an asterisk by "by your fruits you shall know them*" then so be it.

*Not all fruits are equal.

Fair enough. I would never dare claim we are the most Christ-like or that we do the most service. I simply don't know enough about what other churches are doing. By the same token, I would never claim to know everything the LDS Church does in terms of service to those in need.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If I'm ever called as a General Authority, you will know that it is by God's mandate that I make change happen.

God can read my posts. If he wants to make it happen, he will make it happen.

If you think this is the best way to satisfy all your responsbilities, then that's fine, but don't be so quick to complain about others.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....29472158.html

About 10,000 members or about three stakes worth of LDS. So about $150-$200 per member per year to "missions". Unclear how this would correlate with LDS fast offerings or tithing.

It's also not clear how hands-on their missions are to avg members. Obviously the mission to Peru was hands-on.

Of course there is nothing less hands-on than paying tithing which gets shipped to SLC and then having SLC at some point ship some containers to a disaster.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Paying for temporary housing is not nearly the same thing, in terms of effort and service. The average member probably never even knows it happened, much less is involved in giving that service.

How does one access this service? We talk about the hoops that people have to jump through to get help. Seems like finding a Mormon bishop is a pretty dang big hoop to jump through. In other words, accessibility is terrible in such a system. And also inefficient.

It is painless however, in that it involves no longterm commitment, and no use of members time.

I guess you would have a good argument if the Provo police weren't collecting dead frozen bodies off the streets (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I trip over frozed dead bodies on the way to work all the time. I guess it could happen.

I think you have a good point about the accessibility. But I also imagine homeless have an idea how the system works in every city. When my dad was bishop in a small town, he was "transient bishop" and fielded phone calls at all hours of the day and night from people needing assistance. Food and shelter. They'd sleep on our couches if he didn't have church money for them. I'm sure times have changed. And I'm not sure what's done in large cities in Utah.