How old were you when you first learned JS practiced polyandry? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Indy Coug · 04-30-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Almost 70 percent learned about polyandry after twenty, probably after mission.

To me, even though it's not a valid poll, it is suggestive that our history is not widely disseminated.

Why should this be part of the standard church curriculum to under 18s?

Archaea · 04-30-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Why should this be part of the standard church curriculum to under 18s?

The point is, it's never disseminated but available and most will encounter it sometime in life.

When will innoculation occur?

SteelBlue · 04-30-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Why should this be part of the standard church curriculum to under 18s?

We should know our own history, that's why. Sounds like you just found out about polyandry today. I learned of polyandry from Compton's book that came out in 1997. I was 27 years old, had served a mission, and had NEVER known about it. I knew he was polygamous and had long ago accepted that part of our history. But polyandry flies in the face of everything and anything we've ever been taught is right. The bottom line is that Joseph WAS married to women who were married to other men at the time. In some of those instances those first husband's did not know of their wife's new marriage to Joseph. According to Bushman there is no concrete evidence that Joseph had sexual relations with the women in his polyandrous marriages. However, Compton makes a strong case that he did and Bushman seems to agree. My personal opinion, after much study is that he very likely did. Especially convincing to me is the case of Sylvia Sessions.

The best I can come up with in my research is that there was a doctrine taught that if a woman met a man of higher standing in the Priesthood she could marry him no divorce required from her first husband. It's my opinion that this was the principle under which Joseph and Brigham were operating in those times.

I'm not arguing that this stuff should be a part of standard courses for our 18 year olds but at the very least we should reach a point where we are informed of what happened in those times.

Indy Coug · 04-30-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

We should know our own history, that's why. Sounds like you just found out about polyandry today.

Nope, I've known about this for awhile. While we're on the subject of making direct or indirect accusations that this polygamy/polyandry stuff was the byproduct of a lustful fallen prophet exercising unrighteous dominion upon whomever he will:

http://www.i4m.com/think/history/angel_sword.htm

BlueHair · 05-01-2007, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Why should this be part of the standard church curriculum to under 18s?

It would have been good to know before I spent two years of my life on a mission. If I would have known it was okay for prophets to be man-whores and wife swapping and brothels were okay for leaders, I would have worked harder to reach leadership status in the church.

Indy Coug · 05-01-2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHair

It would have been good to know before I spent two years of my life on a mission. If I would have known it was okay for prophets to be man-whores and wife swapping and brothels were okay for leaders, I would have worked harder to reach leadership status in the church.

Well, if you're more of a person that puts stock into things like this more than any spiritual witness you may have gained, then maybe you would have been better off not wasting 2 years of your life.

Consider it a lesson learned.

BlueHair · 05-01-2007, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, if you're more of a person that puts stock into things like this more than any spiritual witness you may have gained, then maybe you would have been better off not wasting 2 years of your life.

Consider it a lesson learned.

Believe me, I learned a valuable lesson. This is it: Look before you leap. The church is smart to mis-represent it's history. No reason to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

BlueHair · 05-01-2007, 04:01 AM

I know I make alot of sarcastic comments on this board. I promise this isn't one of them. If Joseph Smith was truly a prophet, there is no way in hell he slept with married women. I can understand that no man is perfect, but adultery? Not the accidental adultery either. We are talking the pre-planned variety. Actually talking women into sleeping with him based on his status as prophet. I can't see any way to reconcile that. Either he was a smart, horny opportunist or he was a prophet. He can't be both. If so, God is a hypocrite. I can just imagine judgement day. God: Why did you sleep with your neighbor's wife? Adulter: I was following the prophet. I can't imagine the headaches some people must get trying to make this stuff okay in their mind. Sometimes the simplest answer is the truth. A prophet ceases to be a prophet when he has sex with someone else's wife. Can he be forgiven? Of course. But he's no prophet.

SeattleUte · 05-01-2007, 04:19 AM

Raised as LDS, there are usually two steps to understanding JS's "polygamy."

First, your mother tells you JS had multiple wives like Abraham, etc. She may add that God told him to do it and he hesitated, cause he was scared of Emma, but God threatened him with his life if he didn't do it. Then after he took multiple wives for a time he kept it from Emma because he was scared. My mother told me this much when I was a child. Maybe before I was baptized. I didn't really appreciate what all this meant (sneaking around with other women and being "married" to them jsut because he said so, the fact that some were but girls, wives of others, etc.)

Second, eventually, if you have any critical capacity whatsoever, you will come to appreciate fully how truly, enormously sordid this aspect of Mormon history really was. THat may not occur until you are an adult.

SeattleUte · 05-01-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I know I make alot of sarcastic comments on this board. I promise this isn't one of them. If Joseph Smith was truly a prophet, there is no way in hell he slept with married women. I can understand that no man is perfect, but adultery? Not the accidental adultery either. We are talking the pre-planned variety. Actually talking women into sleeping with him based on his status as prophet. I can't see any way to reconcile that. Either he was a smart, horny opportunist or he was a prophet. He can't be both. If so, God is a hypocrite. I can just imagine judgement day. God: Why did you sleep with your neighbor's wife? Adulter: I was following the prophet. I can't imagine the headaches some people must get trying to make this stuff okay in their mind. Sometimes the simplest answer is the truth. A prophet ceases to be a prophet when he has sex with someone else's wife. Can he be forgiven? Of course. But he's no prophet.

So do you deny it happened (despite the historical record) or do you deny he's a prophet?

View Poll Results: How old when you learned of polyandry by JS?
Before baptism?	1	2.17%
Before puberty or 14?	8	17.39%
Before 20?	7	15.22%
After 20 or after mission?	23	50.00%
After 30?	7	15.22%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

05-01-2007, 04:19 AM	#9
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Raised as LDS, there are usually two steps to understanding JS's "polygamy." First, your mother tells you JS had multiple wives like Abraham, etc. She may add that God told him to do it and he hesitated, cause he was scared of Emma, but God threatened him with his life if he didn't do it. Then after he took multiple wives for a time he kept it from Emma because he was scared. My mother told me this much when I was a child. Maybe before I was baptized. I didn't really appreciate what all this meant (sneaking around with other women and being "married" to them jsut because he said so, the fact that some were but girls, wives of others, etc.) Second, eventually, if you have any critical capacity whatsoever, you will come to appreciate fully how truly, enormously sordid this aspect of Mormon history really was. THat may not occur until you are an adult. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 05-01-2007 at 04:51 AM.

05-01-2007, 04:01 AM	#8
BlueHair Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 1,148	I know I make alot of sarcastic comments on this board. I promise this isn't one of them. If Joseph Smith was truly a prophet, there is no way in hell he slept with married women. I can understand that no man is perfect, but adultery? Not the accidental adultery either. We are talking the pre-planned variety. Actually talking women into sleeping with him based on his status as prophet. I can't see any way to reconcile that. Either he was a smart, horny opportunist or he was a prophet. He can't be both. If so, God is a hypocrite. I can just imagine judgement day. God: Why did you sleep with your neighbor's wife? Adulter: I was following the prophet. I can't imagine the headaches some people must get trying to make this stuff okay in their mind. Sometimes the simplest answer is the truth. A prophet ceases to be a prophet when he has sex with someone else's wife. Can he be forgiven? Of course. But he's no prophet.