Here's what I don't get

[MikeWaters]

You have some small subset of gays in the church, that are living the standards, attending BYU, going to meetings......and then you have people acting as if it is the right thing to make these people as uncomfortable as possible.

"If you are struggling with SSA, you are not welcome here."

Why are the people that say SSA is a conscious choice always the loudest?

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You have some small subset of gays in the church, that are living the standards, attending BYU, going to meetings......and then you have people acting as if it is the right thing to make these people as uncomfortable as possible.

"If you are struggling with SSA, you are not welcome here."

Why are the people that say SSA is a conscious choice always the loudest?

Because they are closet gays.

[Archaea]

Personally, I've never witnessed anything to which you refer.

I've never witnessed anybody confessing his non-straight orientation, nor anybody bashing gayness. In most discussions to which I have been privy, it's been a nonstarter. yes I've seen the internet jibberish, but in person I've never seen it. If you mean, that somebody acting effeminately might turn others off, well that's another matter.

Is this one of those myths to which only few are privy? Is this a three Nephite urban legend?

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

"If you are struggling with SSA, you are not welcome here."

I have NEVER seen this attitude expressed by a member of the church. I'm sure there are some who feel that way. But I have not personally seen this.

It seems to me the problem is confusing "hate the sin, love the sinner" with "hate the sin = bigotry/homophobia/you are not welcome here"

Not saying that's your attitude but that's what I see from the "liberal" side of this issue.

[MikeWaters]

I see that whole "I know being gay is just a choice that people make, they could choose to be straight" as a kind of ignorant attack against gay members.

These people desperately do not want to be gay. And they are told they are sinning by having chosen to be attracted to the same sex. Never mind that that is not doctrine.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I see that whole "I know being gay is just a choice that people make, they could choose to be straight" as a kind of ignorant attack against gay members.

These people desperately do not want to be gay. And they are told they are sinning by having chosen to be attracted to the same sex. Never mind that that is not doctrine.

There are many who believe it can be selected. That would not be surprising, given our culture and theology of agency.

However, being of a different belief regarding orientation is a far cry from that to being overtly oppressive.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I see that whole "I know being gay is just a choice that people make, they could choose to be straight" as a kind of ignorant attack against gay members.

These people desperately do not want to be gay. And they are told they are sinning by having chosen to be attracted to the same sex. Never mind that that is not doctrine.

It is a complicated subject that begs the question, do lesbos prefer oversized, voluptuous man made knockers as well?

Often times such queries are left to the mysogenistic men that we are, future dialogue on the subject should include a couple of carpet munchers, of the female variety, for it to trully be meaningfull and representative.

On a more serious note I can not imagine a more difficult gethsamene than suffering from same sex attraction and having a testimony of the Restored gospel, save perhaps suffering from male camel toe and being the head coach at the University of Utah.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You have some small subset of gays in the church, that are living the standards, attending BYU, going to meetings......and then you have people acting as if it is the right thing to make these people as uncomfortable as possible.

"If you are struggling with SSA, you are not welcome here."

Why are the people that say SSA is a conscious choice always the loudest?

I haven't had a single experience that confirms what you are talking about outside of CB. It is hard for me to imagine someone at church making a conscious effort to make someone uncomfortable, even if they knew they were gay.

I view church attendance like I view the gym (and I think most do): that guy on the exercise bike may be 400 lbs, but hey, here he is at the gym trying to improve himself. Even if I thought that being gay (as opposed to living the lifestyle) was evil, I would be hoping that being at church would effect some positive change on the person.

Who are these people that you are referring to? I'm th last to have my head in the sand but I just haven't encountered it at church.