Obama: wealth redistributor

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

This is precisely the nonsense that is costing you guys the elections!

Two problems with your argument about the US becoming just like any Western European country:

1. Most Americans don't have any reason to think that would be a bad thing. They have traveled to Europe, enjoyed Europe, heard stories of everyone having health insurance in Europe, etc.

2. Despite No. 1, the US is not remotely close to being like Western Europe, Obama isn't going to make the US just like Western Europe, and arguments to the contrary are totally disingenuous.

In sum, you and those like you making this argument are fearmongering (which is failing, because people in general aren't scared of what you are saying the US will become), and the conclusion that you want people to reach through your fearmongering (that the US will be just like W. Europe) isn't even reasonable.

What Obama and the democrats want is a heavily involved Government in a Mixed Economy (Government Mixed with the Market). Is the US economy a Mixed Economy right now? Yes they are (and for the most part they have always been). The government is affecting the Markets. They do this through direct legislation, subsidies and tax breaks and Social Security programs.

If the Mixed Economy was a spectrum with the right being Outright Capitalism with No government interference and the Left being Complete Socialism (Government owns and operates all the business). The US is farther to the right than Western Europe. My fear is that as the US economy continually moves left on this spectrum by more social programs, nationalizing of banks is only going to make life worse. The profit incentive gets lost. My "fearmongering" as you call it is simply pointing out that the country is moving towards the left of the spectrum.

Call me a "fearmongerer" if you will but I hate government interference in the market. The more that happens the less free people become.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

What Obama and the democrats want is a heavily involved Government in a Mixed Economy (Government Mixed with the Market). Is the US economy a Mixed Economy right now? Yes they are (and for the most part they have always been). The government is affecting the Markets. They do this through direct legislation, subsidies and tax breaks and Social Security programs.

If the Mixed Economy was a spectrum with the right being Outright Capitalism with No government interference and the Left being Complete Socialism (Government owns and operates all the business). The US is farther to the right than Western Europe. My fear is that as the US economy continually moves left on this spectrum by more social programs, nationalizing of banks is only going to make life worse. The profit incentive gets lost. My "fearmongering" as you call it is simply pointing out that the country is moving towards the left of the spectrum.

Call me a "fearmongerer" if you will but I hate government interference in the market. The more that happens the less free people become.

What you are talking about is a sliding scale of government intervention which, as you rightly point out, has always seen fluctuation from the right to the left and vice-versa, but never existing at the extremes. That is true. What isn't true, however, is your claim that "Sadly the US economy will be just like any Western Europe country." It won't. And to say that the US will reach the same point on the scale as "any Western European country" is disingenuous and fearmongering.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

What you are talking about is a sliding scale of government intervention which, as you rightly point out, has always seen fluctuation from the right to the left and vice-versa, but never existing at the extremes. That is true. What isn't true, however, is your claim that "Sadly the US economy will be just like any Western Europe country." It won't. And to say that the US will reach the same point on the scale as "any Western European country" is disingenuous and fearmongering.

How is it fearmongering or disingenuous? A few threads ago you said:

1. Most Americans don't have any reason to think that would be a bad thing. They have traveled to Europe, enjoyed Europe, heard stories of everyone having health insurance in Europe, etc.

If Americans aren't afraid of becoming Western Europe how am I fearmongering them?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

How is it fearmongering or disingenuous? A few threads ago you said:



If Americans aren't afraid of becoming Western Europe how am I fearmongering them?

I don't think you read my post. I said it was fearmongering, and that you were doing a particularly poor job of it.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't think you read my post. I said it was fearmongering, and that you were doing a particularly poor job of it.

Nice Backtracking on your part.

Again... How can it be fearmongering if "Americans think it would be great"?

Is it because Americans really don't think the economy of Western Europe is what they want?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Nice Backtracking on your part.

Again... How can it be fearmongering if "Americans think it would be great"?

Is it because Americans really don't think the economy of Western Europe is what they want?

Backtracking? I don't think you are reading my posts.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...0&postcount=39

Read the whole thing. You don't need to be successful in your attempts to be a fearmongerer. It is your act that defines you, not the public's reaction to your act.

[il Padrino Ute]

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

What Obama and the democrats want is a heavily involved Government in a Mixed Economy (Government Mixed with the Market). Is the US economy a Mixed Economy right now? Yes they are (and for the most part they have always been). The government is affecting the Markets. They do this through direct legislation, subsidies and tax breaks and Social Security programs.

If the Mixed Economy was a spectrum with the right being Outright Capitalism with No government interference and the Left being Complete Socialism (Government owns and operates all the business). The US is farther to the right than Western Europe. My fear is that as the US economy continually moves left on this spectrum by more social programs, nationalizing of banks is only going to make life worse. The profit incentive gets lost. My "fearmongering" as you call it is simply pointing out that the country is moving towards the left of the spectrum.

Call me a "fearmongerer" if you will but I hate government interference in the market. The more that happens the less free people become.

Reagan was correct when he said that the government is the problem. The less government interference there is, the better our lives will be, even for the socialists amongst us. Of course, the leftists would never admit it because they are about control, not freedom.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Reagan was correct when he said that the government is the problem. The less government interference there is, the better our lives will be, even for the socialists amongst us. Of course, the leftists would never admit it because they are about control, not freedom.

Anarchy, here we come! No government. Hooray! The world is better!

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Anarchy, here we come! No government. Hooray! The world is better!

We could have a lot less government than we have today and still have plenty to go around. Gov't is a necessary evil that is constantly trying to expand itself in unnecessary ways.