Gay Marriage/California Fires

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

Our Church leaders are not perfect, many times they speak without the Spirit and have to rely on their own experiences and wisdom. I recall several times when I was a young leader in our ward that someone would approach me after I had made what they believed to be an a**inine comment. I was never offended and was very grateful that someone would challenge something they felt was inappropriate. Of course their challenges always came in a private setting and on several ocassions I had to apologize and/or clarify my comments. I recall only once being challenged (several times) in public while I was teaching a class to an older single adult group attending a conference. I don't remember what of my many comments were being challenged, I only remember the atmosphere was not pleasant and no one attending the class enjoyed the experience.

So be patient with your leaders, they are just men like you and I taking their turn serving in callings that many of us would rather not be serving in. But, there is nothing wrong with standing up and speaking up against something you feel is inappropriate...just be careful that you do not cross that fine line between using your God given free agency or pursuing what I believe to be a lonely and unhappy road to apostasy.

-Cougarobgon

I agree with this. Excellent advice. We owe the leaders of our own Church with whom we disagree the same courtesy (if not more) that we would give to those of another religion. Most of us wouldn't openly confront or try to humiliate people of another religion in their churches, so we shouldn't do that in our own Church, either.

I agree with UtahDan's approach of offering a gentle, subtle counterpoint if we disagree without openly "calling out" our fellow members, especially leaders who are doing their best but may be mistaken.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

I agree with UtahDan's approach of offering a gentle, subtle counterpoint if we disagree without openly "calling out" our fellow members, especially leaders who are doing their best but may be mistaken.

Does that include members of this messageboard and the FP/Q12 when they issue a statement on gay marriage?

[MikeWaters]

So you guys wouldn't stand up and say something if a Bishop said "I hope those faggots burn"?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So you guys wouldn't stand up and say something if a Bishop said "I hope those faggots burn"?

Do you have a historical precedent here, or are you creating one of those fantastical hypotheticals you would never actually experience?

[MikeWaters]

Indy, is there any scenario where you would stand up and correct a bishop in sacrament meeting?

Is there anything that could be said that would make you and your family get up and walk out?

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Does that include members of this messageboard and the FP/Q12 when they issue a statement on gay marriage?

I meant that it's not appropriate to be openly confrontational during a Church meeting. And I hope even on this board that we could be respectful of other points of view between believing members (recognizing I don't always do this, and it's probably not as important on an anonymous messageboard as it is in "real life").

I don't believe in disrupting Church meetings or trying to debate other members in Church meetings. It's rude because the vast majority of people don't come to Church to have intelligent debates. They want to be reassured in what they already believe to be true and I feel bad interfering with their purpose in attending Church.

I guess I assume that people on this board are here for a different type of conversation so there are different ground rules.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

I meant that it's not appropriate to be openly confrontational during a Church meeting. And I hope even on this board that we could be respectful of other points of view between believing members (recognizing I don't always do this, and it's probably not as important on an anonymous messageboard as it is in "real life").

I don't believe in disrupting Church meetings or trying to debate other members in Church meetings. It's rude because the vast majority of people don't come to Church to have intelligent debates. They want to be reassured in what they already believe to be true and I feel bad interfering with their purpose in attending Church.

I guess I assume that people on this board are here for a different type of conversation so there are different ground rules.

there are some things that are said, and are beyond the pale, and deserve correction. most often this is in sunday school.

If someone in my ward introduces a "blacks were less valiant" you betcha I'm going to say something in direct contradiction.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Indy, is there any scenario where you would stand up and correct a bishop in sacrament meeting?

Is there anything that could be said that would make you and your family get up and walk out?

If someone stood up and said you were a sane, reasonable person, I might vocally object.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

If someone stood up and said you were a sane, reasonable person, I might vocally object.

so the answer is no.

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

there are some things that are said, and are beyond the pale, and deserve correction. most often this is in sunday school.

If someone in my ward introduces a "blacks were less valiant" you betcha I'm going to say something in direct contradiction.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard that in Church. I would say something, too, because that doctrine has been officially repudiated (sort of).

I was substituting in Primary Sharing Time a few months ago and they were teaching the Genesis story of creation. All of these ten-year old kids and some even younger started raising their hands and asking things like "Didn't all of this happen over millions of years?", "Where do dinosaurs fit in -- didn't birds come from dinosaurs?" and other similar questions. It was entertaining watching the teacher try to explain. She just kept saying, "You kids are too smart."

It was awesome. It made me feel much better about the future of the Church. Maybe they were an example to me that I should start speaking up a little more.