Pre-existence in the Bible

[barnes]

I love this passage, but I have never heard it being used when talking about the pre-existance


22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor athe highest
part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by barnes

I love this passage, but I have never heard it being used when talking about the pre-existance

I don't want to be a killjoy and also let me state clearly that I am not arguing against the doctrine of preexistence but in proverbs 8 isn't Wisdom speaking?

12 "I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion.

I just don't think this pericope is talking about the preexistence of the human spirit even conditional on believing in the preexistence of the human spirit. I do, however, agree that it is wonderful.

[barnes]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I don't want to be a killjoy and also let me state clearly that I am not arguing against the doctrine of preexistence but in proverbs 8 isn't Wisdom speaking?


I just don't think this pericope is talking about the preexistence of the human spirit even conditional on believing in the preexistence of the human spirit. I do, however, agree that it is wonderful.

Wisdom is speaking, but the preexistence of the human spirit is intelligence. Could it be the same word meaning the same thing? But of course I have my Mormon goggles on while reading these verses.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by barnes

Wisdom is speaking, but the preexistence of the human spirit is intelligence. Could it be the same word meaning the same thing? But of course I have my Mormon goggles on while reading these verses.

I would say that a reading like that is best understood as eisegetical rather exegetical. As long as that is recognized then it is fun reading. Exegetically, I would argue that Wisdom is more like a mediator between God and humanity in proverbs so the parallels are closer to the way Mormons talk about light and truth (or the light of Christ or even the Holy Ghost) and not so much individual spirit intelligences. Obviously one can make the jump but I do think such a jump puts us in the realm of eisegesis in relation to to this passage. As long as we are leaping a little bit I think it is a much smaller jump to link Wisdom with a female God like Asherah and ultimately modern Mormon belief in a MiH.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I would say that a reading like that is best understood as eisegetical rather exegetical. As long that is recognized then it is fun reading. Exegetically, I would argue that Wisdom is more like a mediator between God and humanity in proverbs so the parallels are closer to the way Mormons talk about light and truth (or the light of Christ or even the Holy Ghost) and not so much individual spirit intelligences. Obviously one can make the jump but I do think such a jump puts us in the realm of eisegesis in relation to to this passage. As long as we are leaping a little bit I think it is a much smaller jump to link Wisdom with a female God like Asherah and ultimately modern Mormon belief in a MiH.

Nice intro into εἰσηγεῖσθαι dude.

That is a great analysis of what is occurring or what occurs with a lot of proof texting.