01-23-2008, 04:00 PM | #11 | |
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Clayton wrote that a quote was attributable to JS. Did he hear the quote personally, or was it relayed to him? That is significant, and because we can't know, and no translation was ever issued, I find the quote meaningless. If a translation had issued and it was gibberish, then it would have been meaningful. But the hoax was not revealed until years later, possibly because the fraudfeasors had hoped to sell the 'artifacts'. You don't find it interesting if JS had truly "translated" it, but it wasn't printed?
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Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα Last edited by Archaea; 01-23-2008 at 04:02 PM. |
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01-23-2008, 04:00 PM | #12 |
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That's a misstatement. A person acquainted with J.S. said, 13 years later, that J.S. translated the plates that turned out to be gibberish somebody made up.
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He's down by the creek, walkin' on water. K-dog P.S. Grrrrrrrrr |
01-23-2008, 04:53 PM | #13 |
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You know what, let's go for broke and assume the worst. Just for fun, let's ignore any of the historical issues regarding the legitimacy of the quote and assume that Joseph Smith actually said that he had translated a portion of the plates, as Clayton put in his journal and in HC. Why, then, did we not get that translation? At least with the book of Abraham, he gave us a little rope with which we could hang him.
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01-23-2008, 05:09 PM | #14 | |
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He lied about that. So if he lied about that do we necessarily conclude he lied about everything else. That is the logic anti's wish us to follow. It's not wholly without merit. However, one would need to know more about the lie and although it would bear upon his credibility, it's not categorically damning. For example, what if he's embarrassed that he can't read it, so he says something like, yeah I looked at it and I'll get back at it later. [He's never looked at it, but he doesn't wish to look bad]. There are so many permutations, but a reasonable conclusion is that JS at some point realized he couldn't read it, and hence issued no "translation". If he simply wanted to perpetrate a fraud, he would have issued a "translation" no matter what.
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Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα Last edited by Archaea; 01-23-2008 at 05:35 PM. |
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01-23-2008, 05:31 PM | #15 |
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This thread is nothing if not hugely ironic.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
01-23-2008, 05:36 PM | #16 |
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Your contribution to it, isn't though.
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01-23-2008, 06:22 PM | #17 |
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I find this quote from the Ensign article referenced above interesting:
"but he would not agree to translate them until they were sent to the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England.” So was Joseph telling them that he suspected a fraud and to get verification from another source that the plates were authentic? |
01-23-2008, 06:54 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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01-23-2008, 06:58 PM | #19 |
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Do you know anybody with a gift to interpret divine writings?
I don't. How does it work?
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Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
01-23-2008, 07:16 PM | #20 |
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It is called calling their bluff. I am sure you do this almost every day of your professional life.
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Sorry for th e tpyos. |
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