Big plot hole/logical absurdity in Nephi-Laban story

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I have never believed that the Spirit literally dictated to Nephi as you seem to believe. I would expect the Spirit to have better grammar.

I think Nephi meant the statement to mean more along the lines of "I know this is true. Truth is from God. I am speaking the truth, my words are from God."

My old English isn't that great. Where is the grammatical breakdown in "Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands . ."? To my ear something is off, but I thought it was just clunky writing.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

My old English isn't that great. Where is the grammatical breakdown in "Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands . ."? To my ear something is off, but I thought it was just clunky writing.

Maybe Cali could start off by first explaining why the Spirit would be speaking in English to Nephi at all.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

When did I say he spoke to Nephi in English?

You were complaining about the grammar. The book is written in English. Apparently, that's how you identified that it wasn't really the Spirit speaking.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Let me see if I get your opinion on this straight:

As soon as I see these words, I know what follows will be warped.

I never gave an opinion on whether the Spirit spoke literal words or otherwise. I simply found your conclusion (that Nephi made up his own mind, with a subsequent spiritual confirmation) interesting given that Nephi makes the opposite clear (in my mind).

He details three different divine communications, two of which he at first resisted and the third to which he concedes. How one gets from that to Nephi drawing his own conclusion, esp. when based on English grammar, is puzzling to me.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

As soon as I see these words, I know what follows will be warped.

I never gave an opinion on whether the Spirit spoke literal words or otherwise. I simply found your conclusion (that Nephi made up his own mind, with a subsequent spiritual confirmation) interesting given that Nephi makes the opposite clear (in my mind).

He details three different divine communications, two of which he at first resisted and the third to which he concedes. How one gets from that to Nephi drawing his own conclusion, esp. when based on English grammar, is puzzling to me.

Your conclusion is the conventional conclusion, but I find Cali's intriguing.

[SeattleUte]

Way to go Cali and Tex, you brought this thread to five star status. This is priceless on so many levels.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

As soon as I see these words, I know what follows will be warped.

I never gave an opinion on whether the Spirit spoke literal words or otherwise. I simply found your conclusion (that Nephi made up his own mind, with a subsequent spiritual confirmation) interesting given that Nephi makes the opposite clear (in my mind).

He details three different divine communications, two of which he at first resisted and the third to which he concedes. How one gets from that to Nephi drawing his own conclusion, esp. when based on English grammar, is puzzling to me.

I don't even know why I bother with you. It isn't even possible to have an honest conversation. I made a wise crack about grammar, which you have now turned into the entire focus of the thread, and when I point out how silly your position appears to be, you (as you always do) then retreat and argue that you never really had a position to begin with, despite the fact that you seem to find fault with any position other than the position which you claim to not be taking.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't even know why I bother with you.

Because you love to?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't even know why I bother with you. It isn't even possible to have an honest conversation. I made a wise crack about grammar, which you have now turned into the entire focus of the thread, and when I point out how silly your position appears to be, you (as you always do) then retreat and argue that you never really had a position to begin with, despite the fact that you seem to find fault with any position other than the position which you claim to not be taking.

Packer's cyborg for you. People start to intimate that Nephi/Laban isn't history but allegegory but still divine or some such thing and tex automatically gets a signal, his receptor sounds an internal alarm, and he's all over it, upholdng orthodoxy at every turn and automatically disavowing prior positions he has taken when caught in inconsistencies without embarrasment or explanation, just continuing to hammer away. You have to understand that while robots or humanbots are capable of greater purity and consistency and far greater information download and inexhaustible argument than us humans, they are less artful and graceful in reconciling contradictory positions taken and appreciating insoluble dilemas inherent in the human condition. I think of a robot boxer hammering away endlessly with its metal and vinyl fists and blinking red eyes.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't even know why I bother with you. It isn't even possible to have an honest conversation. I made a wise crack about grammar, which you have now turned into the entire focus of the thread, and when I point out how silly your position appears to be, you (as you always do) then retreat and argue that you never really had a position to begin with, despite the fact that you seem to find fault with any position other than the position which you claim to not be taking.

Whatever.

Do you even HAVE a reason for believing Nephi didn't get a specific communication, literally spoken or otherwise, from the Spirit as he says?

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Packer's cyborg for you. People start to intimate that Nephi/Laban isn't history but allegegory but still divine or some such thing and tex automatically gets a signal, his receptor sounds an internal alarm, and he's all over it, upholdng orthodoxy at every turn and automatically disavowing prior positions he has taken when caught in inconsistencies without embarrasment or explanation, just continuing to hammer away. You have to understand that while robots or humanbots are capable of greater purity and consistency and far greater information download and inexhaustible argument than us humans, they are less artful and graceful in rconciling contradictory positions taken and appreciating insoluble dilemas inherent in the human condition. I think of a robot boxer hammering away endlessly with its metal and vinyl fists.

Discussing whether Nephi/Laban is history is pointless with you. You don't believe it is. I do. We're at an absolute impasse.