Polyandry by Requiem

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I don't know how it happens. I supsect this is how it happened to me. I was taught JS brought or polygamy was revealed to him. He really didn't want to do it. Emma was against it but consented because he had to have her permission, first wife. He married a couple of other gals and it was mainly because they needed to be helped. Later I was taught polygamy was primarily practiced because there was such a huge ratio of women to men.

None of that seemed like such a big deal to me. Anyone who even suggested this might not be the whole truth was either shouted down as apostates or laughed at.

It must cause some great fear to some, that people can openly talk about other possibilities. I think that is why Indy, Lingo and Tex take shots on occasion about this site and the heretical things they think are said here.

That was what I was taught too. Now I know that Joseph used his authority to get women to go to bed with him. It bothers me a lot. I'm not leaving the church or anything, because I guess as Sooner says, I like Mormon-flavored ice cream.

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by Tex

Look, I'm genuinely sorry for derailing the discussion. I think the suggestion that "Joseph was a horndog" or that he abused his prophetic call to get sex is among the most pernicious claims a person can make about him. Thus, I responded in the strongest terms I can.

It wasn't meant necessarily as a personal attack on marsupial, or to say that I am better than anyone ... simply that I think it is DEAD wrong, and rude to boot.

I certainly do not win the award for the rudest or most inartful debater on CG. The truth is, my views are tremendously unpopular here, and thus I take a lot of flack for it.

How do you explain Joseph marrying women who were already married? Did they need his sacred seed to be redeemed?

What about him marrying Orson Hyde's wife after he sent him on a mission? I don't how to explain it, Tex. Maybe someday it will all make sense to me. If that day comes then I will say, "Prophet Smith, I am sorry that with all the information I had on earth I just thought you were using your authority to take advantage of women. But now I know that 'marrying' other men's wives, your household helper and teenage girls was all a part God's beautiful plan to restore the gospel in the Latter-days."

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by marsupial

How do you explain Joseph marrying women who were already married? Did they need his sacred seed to be redeemed?

What about him marrying Orson Hyde's wife after he sent him on a mission? I don't how to explain it, Tex. Maybe someday it will all make sense to me. If that day comes then I will say, "Prophet Smith, I am sorry that with all the information I had on earth I just thought you were using your authority to take advantage of women. But now I know that 'marrying' other men's wives, your household helper and teenage girls was all a part God's beautiful plan to restore the gospel in the Latter-days."

Based on Marsupial's post (and my earlier one), I am interested in responses re: the JS polyandry issue. As I stated, it is not a testimony breaker; I would just like to know the context, justification, etc. This is a classic case where candid information is preferable to hearsay - particularly in view of the specific information contained in the link below that indicates JS married at least 11 women who were already married:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Based on Marsupial's post (and my earlier one), I am interested in responses re: the JS polyandry issue. As I stated, it is not a testimony breaker; I would just like to know the context, justification, etc. This is a classic case where candid information is preferable to hearsay - particularly in view of the specific information contained in the link below that indicates JS married at least 11 women who were already married:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm

Bushman only verifies sexual relationships with three or four.

I really don't know what to think about it other than he was a horny dude who some how was able to repent for this sin.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Based on Marsupial's post (and my earlier one), I am interested in responses re: the JS polyandry issue. As I stated, it is not a testimony breaker; I would just like to know the context, justification, etc. This is a classic case where candid information is preferable to hearsay - particularly in view of the specific information contained in the link below that indicates JS married at least 11 women who were already married:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm

We could do threads for each of the 11...

Newell & Avery's book and Compton's book go into the context.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Based on Marsupial's post (and my earlier one), I am interested in responses re: the JS polyandry issue. As I stated, it is not a testimony breaker; I would just like to know the context, justification, etc. This is a classic case where candid information is preferable to hearsay - particularly in view of the specific information contained in the link below that indicates JS married at least 11 women who were already married:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm

Don't judge him by our contemporary standards. He was about 3,000 years behind his time. The story of Abraham and Hagar and Ishmael is not very flattering of Abraham either.

http://www.windsorfineart.com/artist...9_REM_b30.html

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Bushman only verifies sexual relationships with three or four.

I really don't know what to think about it other than he was a horny dude who some how was able to repent for this sin.

This seems so simple but if true I'm not sure what % of the church could live with this.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Bushman only verifies sexual relationships with three or four.

I really don't know what to think about it other than he was a horny dude who some how was able to repent for this sin.

I also don't know what to think about that MP in France ripping those missionaries for spanking the monkey, in light of what JS apparently did. I would think some horny 19 year old kid, going without women for two years should be cut some slack.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Requiem

As I stated, it is not a testimony breaker; I would just like to know the context, justification, etc. This is a classic case where candid information is preferable to hearsay - particularly in view of the specific information contained in the link below that indicates JS married at least 11 women who were already married:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm

While it may not be a testimony breaker for you, it is most definitely a testimony breaker for some. Joseph was willing to lie to his followers about his practice of polyandry. It is not that big of a leap to come to the conclusion that he possibly lied about other revelatory experiences. While we all know our leaders are not perfect and they make mistakes, this "mistake" seems more insidious than even adultry. It is difficult to reconcile the prophetic call of Joseph with these actions.

I have prayed asking for peace of mind concerning these things and am still left wanting. I have not left the church but it troubles me greatly.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

While it may not be a testimony breaker for you, it is most definitely a testimony breaker for some. Joseph was willing to lie to his followers about his practice of polyandry. It is not that big of a leap to come to the conclusion that he possibly lied about other revelatory experiences. While we all know our leaders are not perfect and they make mistakes, this "mistake" seems more insidious than even adultry. It is difficult to reconcile the prophetic call of Joseph with these actions.

I have prayed asking for peace of mind concerning these things and am still left wanting. I have not left the church but it troubles me greatly.

What if he wasn't lying but he believed he received the law of plural marriage from revelation. What if the "horndog" aspect of it only played into it because it had him thinking about sex and the possibilities of such maybe a little too much? The thinking and dwelling on the subject might have led him to think he received a revelation that really wasn't there.

Not saying I believe that, but it seems to me to be an acceptable answer if I were to completely condemn polygamy.