The current direction of BYU Provo - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 09-17-2006, 04:47 AM

discourages me.

I long for the days of Oaks or Lee. I know eventually this too must pass, but the days of academic retrenchment are horrifying, as BYU treads water, becoming nothing more than a glorified seminary.

All-American · 09-17-2006, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

discourages me.

I long for the days of Oaks or Lee. I know eventually this too must pass, but the days of academic retrenchment are horrifying, as BYU treads water, becoming nothing more than a glorified seminary.

Agreed. There's a lot more emphasis on living the honor code than on learning.

SeattleUte · 09-17-2006, 05:22 AM

Well said, and I can't improve on these posts, and I doubt anyone else could. Mike, lock up the thread.

Cali Coug · 09-18-2006, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

Agreed. There's a lot more emphasis on living the honor code than on learning.

I don't know where you guys are going with this. BYU is a fine institution. It is designed to be a great undergraduate institution that prepares people for graduate work elsewhere (with a few exceptions, like law).

It does its work well. Its students are in HIGH demand. They are well-prepared for graduate work at other universities, and routinely fill out many slots in the elite university graduate programs. Indeed, they are overrepresented in such programs.

They go overboard with the honor code, yes. But people go there knowing what they are getting. I would like to see them be more open to opposing ideas in the classroom, but I think they do very well with what they are trying to accomplish.

MikeWaters · 09-18-2006, 04:36 AM

I guess what I may be getting to is the hard sciences. Maybe BYU is just fine as a liberal arts school. That's not a terribly difficult standard. Many schools do just that with zero research.

But when it comes to science, I think that's where the lack of research hurts the undergrads. There are fewer research opportunities, and in my experience, many of these are token opportunities. Not the kind that really exposes you to what you may eventually do. I was lucky enough to get outside research experiences during the summer, that BYU could never have provided. These led to two undergrad publications that would have never occurred had all my research experience occurred at BYU.

Do many BYU students go on to great schools and success in the hard sciences? Yes. But I think it is because of the quality students.

And then when these quality students succeed in graduate school (in the hard sciences), are they going to come back to BYU? Not likely. Is this good for BYU? In my opinion, no it is not.

Is it good for Mormondom that they dont' return? Maybe yes. Broaden and strengthen the diaspora.

Maybe there really is a method behind the madness. Keep BYU mediocre to deepen and broaden the diaspora, LOL.

MikeWaters · 09-18-2006, 04:45 AM

As to BYU being mid-tier.

BYU is ranked 242 in federal research dollars, and 212 in overall research spending.

I don't think I could even tell you the names of more than 150 universities.

Surfah · 09-18-2006, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

And then when these quality students succeed in graduate school (in the hard sciences), are they going to come back to BYU? Not likely. Is this good for BYU? In my opinion, no it is not.

Is it good for Mormondom that they dont' return? Maybe yes. Broaden and strengthen the diaspora.

Maybe there really is a method behind the madness. Keep BYU mediocre to deepen and broaden the diaspora, LOL.

Enter to Learn. Go Forth to Serve. There's the reason for your diaspora.

Jeff Lebowski · 09-18-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Do many BYU students go on to great schools and success in the hard sciences? Yes. But I think it is because of the quality students.

This is funny. And you accuse SU of being hard-headed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

And then when these quality students succeed in graduate school (in the hard sciences), are they going to come back to BYU? Not likely. Is this good for BYU? In my opinion, no it is not.

Is it good for Mormondom that they dont' return? Maybe yes. Broaden and strengthen the diaspora.

Maybe there really is a method behind the madness. Keep BYU mediocre to deepen and broaden the diaspora, LOL.

I don't where you keep getting this stuff. What makes you think none of the BYU grads in top-tier research schools don't come back to BYU? That's just nonsense.

Here are the degrees of the current faculty at the Mechanical Engineering Dept. at BYU:

Ohio State
Virginia Tech
MIT
Air Force Inst. of Tech.
Berkeley
Univ. of Utah
Purdue
Univ. of Utah
Purdue
Purdue
Michigan
Illinois
Wisconsin
RPI
Univ. of Utah
Stanford
Ohio State
Illinois
Arizona State
MIT
Utah State
MIT
Purdue
Stanford
Wisconsin
Purdue

The majority of new hires at BYU are from top-tier research schools.

Archaea · 09-18-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

This is funny. And you accuse SU of being hard-headed.

I don't where you keep getting this stuff. What makes you think none of the BYU grads in top-tier research schools don't come back to BYU? That's just nonsense.

Here are the degrees of the current faculty at the Mechanical Engineering Dept. at BYU:

Ohio State
Virginia Tech
MIT
Air Force Inst. of Tech.
Berkeley
Univ. of Utah
Purdue
Univ. of Utah
Purdue
Purdue
Michigan
Illinois
Wisconsin
RPI
Univ. of Utah
Stanford
Ohio State
Illinois
Arizona State
MIT
Utah State
MIT
Purdue
Stanford
Wisconsin
Purdue

The majority of new hires at BYU are from top-tier research schools.

What no Cal Tech?

Who's RPI? What does this have to do with football?

Jeff Lebowski · 09-18-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

What no Cal Tech?

Who's RPI? What does this have to do with football?

LOL. RPI = Rensselaer Polytech Institute

http://www.rpi.edu/

09-17-2006, 04:47 AM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	The current direction of BYU Provo discourages me. I long for the days of Oaks or Lee. I know eventually this too must pass, but the days of academic retrenchment are horrifying, as BYU treads water, becoming nothing more than a glorified seminary. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

09-17-2006, 05:22 AM	#3
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Well said, and I can't improve on these posts, and I doubt anyone else could. Mike, lock up the thread. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

09-18-2006, 04:36 AM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I guess what I may be getting to is the hard sciences. Maybe BYU is just fine as a liberal arts school. That's not a terribly difficult standard. Many schools do just that with zero research. But when it comes to science, I think that's where the lack of research hurts the undergrads. There are fewer research opportunities, and in my experience, many of these are token opportunities. Not the kind that really exposes you to what you may eventually do. I was lucky enough to get outside research experiences during the summer, that BYU could never have provided. These led to two undergrad publications that would have never occurred had all my research experience occurred at BYU. Do many BYU students go on to great schools and success in the hard sciences? Yes. But I think it is because of the quality students. And then when these quality students succeed in graduate school (in the hard sciences), are they going to come back to BYU? Not likely. Is this good for BYU? In my opinion, no it is not. Is it good for Mormondom that they dont' return? Maybe yes. Broaden and strengthen the diaspora. Maybe there really is a method behind the madness. Keep BYU mediocre to deepen and broaden the diaspora, LOL.

09-18-2006, 04:45 AM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	As to BYU being mid-tier. BYU is ranked 242 in federal research dollars, and 212 in overall research spending. I don't think I could even tell you the names of more than 150 universities.