Intervention show--gay LDS guy

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by scottie

I'm not suggesting that what you're saying isn't true Flystripper, but how do you or your in-laws know that people are very uncomfortable around your in-laws?

I don't know how peole pick up on it, but I am uncomfortable in church around a lot of people.

The guy I know is divorced after a talk on Temple marriages are forever.

The guy I know that drinks coffee after a rousing speech on the WOW.

The gal I know who just got a boob job after a rousing talk telling teenagers not to get tattoo's.

The folks I know that are gay.

The gal I had had a petting session with the night before.

All of these folks I would be comfortable with on the golf course or at work, but not at church.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Tex

First, I think the ostracizing described here is overplayed. Certainly there are some members with loud opinions and no tact, but the church is not full of provincial anti-gay bigots, excepting the enlightened few who deign to post on Cougarguard.

Second, if (repeat, IF) a gay person were to come to terms with the church's stance on homosexuality, there are still lots of wonderful teachings about faith, charity, service, etc. that said person could benefit from--things that have no more direct bearing on sexual orientation than they do on a whole host of other sins and/or weaknesses.

You can't seriously believe this. If you let it be known in any ward in Utah that you are gay -- regardless of whether you are practicing -- you will not be welcomed with open arms. You will not receive empathy. You will not receive support. You will not be treated as just another brother in Zion.

To claim otherwise is just plain dishonest.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

It may be but it's difficult for those of us with little or no connection to the community to understand their sociology.

Jay says he has compassion for gays, whereas, if I look to myself candidly, have no connection to something I find completely alien. I simply cannot relate or connect to it.

And there is not one gay community, but there is a dominant political and social gay network, where certain activities are allowed and expressed. So those of us who are completely disconnected from the community, "gay lifestyle" means "licentious" for it signifies rampant unprotected sex with multiple simultaneous partners and illicit drug use. People or subcultures constantly take offense when these subcultures do little to clean up their communities or image other than to simply go on the attack.

relations with hundreds of different men. It's part of the gay 'lifestyle'.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

The ostracizing is more subtle. My in laws are moving due in large part to their ostracizing in the ward. Prior to their son coming out of the closet, they were in the stake relief society and high counsel and were a pillar in the ward. Soon after it became common knowledge that their son was gay they were both released and have been without a calling for nearly 4 years and have been the 100 lb gorilla in the room that nobody knows how to interact with. People that were friends for 20 years now will barely look at them in the eye. They are moving in large part because of how uncomfortable they feel in a ward and stake that they have been a part of for 30 years.

Something is not right about that.

Originally Posted by non sequitur

You can't seriously believe this. If you let it be known in any ward in Utah that you are gay -- regardless of whether you are practicing -- you will not be welcomed with open arms. You will not receive empathy. You will not receive support. You will not be treated as just another brother in Zion.

To claim otherwise is just plain dishonest.

I can't speak to how things work in Utah wards, but in other wards I've been in, I know of a couple of instances where this was not the case. One ward in particular went into over-drive to make sure the "outed" gay person (in this case, a woman) was still nurtured and made to feel welcome.

You can cite your anecdotes, and I can cite mine. People can be judgmental, no question, and not just about homosexuality. But I've found quite a bit of tolerance among most of the saints too.

And I'll add this little zinger as well: sometimes people who come out as gay get hypersensitive to how they are being treated. Sometimes they see offense where either none existed, or none was intended. Heck, I've known people so paranoid about their divorce, or their job loss, or whatever, that they think the WHOLE ward is talking about, when in truth very few even know about it. Don't tell me that doesn't happen with people hypersensitive about their own sexual orientation.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by exUte

relations with hundreds of different men. It's part of the gay 'lifestyle'.

Link?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

You can't seriously believe this. If you let it be known in any ward in Utah that you are gay -- regardless of whether you are practicing -- you will not be welcomed with open arms. You will not receive empathy. You will not receive support. You will not be treated as just another brother in Zion.

To claim otherwise is just plain dishonest.

of the green stuff on the tail end of a bull........and it isn't guacamole.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I can't speak to how things work in Utah wards, but in other wards I've been in, I know of a couple of instances where this was not the case. One ward in particular went into over-drive to make sure the "outed" gay person (in this case, a woman) was still nurtured and made to feel welcome.

You can cite your anecdotes, and I can cite mine. People can be judgmental, no question, and not just about homosexuality. But I've found quite a bit of tolerance among most of the saints too.

And I'll add this little zinger as well: sometimes people who come out as gay get hypersensitive to how they are being treated. Sometimes they see offense where either none existed, or none was intended. Heck, I've known people so paranoid about their divorce, or their job loss, or whatever, that they think the WHOLE ward is talking about, when in truth very few even know about it. Don't tell me that doesn't happen with people hypersensitive about their own sexual orientation.

this reminds me of the women in my stake who searched out all the myspace and facebook accounts of youth in my stake/her ward and said she came across a YW who had said she was gay as part of her profile. And how that girl shouldn't lie and make things up because some people might take it seriously.

in other words, it is not possible to be gay if you are a nice young man from a respectable family.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

You can't seriously believe this. If you let it be known in any ward in Utah that you are gay -- regardless of whether you are practicing -- you will not be welcomed with open arms. You will not receive empathy. You will not receive support. You will not be treated as just another brother in Zion.

To claim otherwise is just plain dishonest.

And you make this statement based on all the time you've recently been spending in an LDS ward? You make this statement based on the large sample set of LDS wards you've been a member of? I hate to break it to you buddy but not every ward is the same. Just because you like to extrapolate whatever bitter experiences you've had doesn't make your generalizations true.

I know for a fact that there are wards in Utah where an openly gay (but not sexually active) homosexual is given empathy and support. To claim otherwise is just plain dishonest.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Link?

and you think its gone down?

“Survey Finds 40 percent of Gay Men Have Had More Than 40 Sex Partners,” Lambda Report, January/February 1998, p. 20. A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pp. 308, 9; see also Bell, Weinberg and Hammersmith, Sexual Preference (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1981).

The following. for example, was published in Lambada:

24 percent of gay men had more than 100 partners.
43 percent of gay men had more than 500 partners.
28 percent of gay men had more than 1,000 partners.

Risk of HIV/Aids is astronomical because of anal sex. That's how gay men have sex, in case you didn't know. It's a wonderful lifestyle, don't you agree?

In their own words: Gareth Kirby, managing editor of the homosexual newspaper Xtra West, stated (Sept. 6, 2001) that legal marriages are contrary to the homosexual culture:

…In our culture, we haven't created the same hierarchy as has heterosexual culture. We know that love has many faces, and names, ages, places. … We know that a 30-year relationship is no better, no better, than a nine-week, or nine-minute, fling – it's different, but not better. Both have value. We know that the instant intimacy involved in that perfect 20-minute …in Stanley Park can be a profoundly beautiful thing. We know a two-year relationship where people live apart is as beautiful, absolutely as beautiful, as a 30-year relationship where people live together. We know that the people involved in an open relationship can love each other as deeply as the people in a closed relationship …

[scottie]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

I know for a fact that there are wards in Utah where an openly gay (but not sexually active) homosexual is given empathy and support.

Not to pick apart what you're saying BFM, but should the sexually active ones not be given support?

EDIT: In other words, are you saying you've seen that the sexually active gays weren't given empathy and support in wards in Utah? How did the ward members know if they were sexually active or not?