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fusnik11 · 08-11-2005, 05:10 PM

question....

what is the debate with evolution, and how do dinosaurs fit into the equation?

'The Lord pronounced the earth good when it was finished. Everything upon its face was called good. There was no death in the earth before the fall of Adam. I do not care what the scientists say in regard to dinosaurs and other creatures upon the earth millions of years ago, that lived and died and fought and struggled for existence. When the earth was created and was declared good, peace was upon its face among all its creatures. Strife and wickedness were not found here, neither was there any corruption.'

joseph f smith doctrines of salvation.....

how did the fall actually happen?

MikeWaters · 08-11-2005, 05:29 PM

I asked my dad about this a long time ago. His suggestion was that death did not exist in the Garden of Eden, but that death occurred *outside* of the Garden.

I don't know that he had any doctrinal/prophetic support for this viewpoint.

fusnik11 · 08-11-2005, 05:34 PM

it seems though that smith makes it clear that no death happened anywhere on the earth....

i always thought that maybe adam and eve and certain creations lived inside the garden without any death, the fall occurred and they were brought into the real world....

smith teaches, if im correct, that the fall was an actual physical removal of earth from close proximity to god and that this subsequent fall left the earth with physical death....

the quote i used suggests that no death existed on the face of the earth...

so i guess the real question is, how does evolution fit into this paradigm and what the freak is the deal with dinosaurs?

Archaea · 08-11-2005, 06:10 PM

were Adam and his kind generated elsewhere and brought to earth, where death and life had occurred for millions of years previous?

Who knows? We don't.

Spiritually, Adam is the first man.

SteelBlue · 08-11-2005, 07:01 PM

[quote="fusnik11"]it seems though that smith makes it clear that no death happened anywhere on the earth....quote]

I think you also have to remember that the book you took the quote from is not scripture. Joseph F. Smith wrote many books and they contain some opinion. I recall reading one of the "Answers to Gospel Questions" books and he states that man will not go into outer space because God would not allow that. Clearly that was his opinion. Perhaps on this topic he wrote his opinion on the matter vs. the accepted doctrine of the church. It is my understanding that the church has very little "official doctrine" on the matter.

MikeWaters · 08-11-2005, 07:29 PM

Yeah, I think it was Joseph Fielding Smith who said that man would never go to the moon, not God's will, etc.

This was before he was the prophet.

Dan!?

SteelBlue · 08-11-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Yeah, I think it was Joseph Fielding Smith who said that man would never go to the moon, not God's will, etc.

This was before he was the prophet.

Dan!?

Yes. You are correct. My bad. But I guess my point remains the same.

Dan · 08-12-2005, 12:20 AM

Joseph Fielding Smith: May 14, 1961: "We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it....The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen."

Dan's Historical addendum: July 20, 1969, man lands on the moon.

MikeWaters · 08-12-2005, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Dan's Historical addendum: July 20, 1969, man lands on the moon.

OR SO THEY SAY!!! IF YOU BELIEVE IT WASN'T A HOLLYWOOD SOUNDSTAGE!

Actually it's kind of weird to think we accomplished this in 1969, and now NASA is trying to figure out AGAIN how to get back to the moon. Our space program is awful. But that's another story.

So did JFieldingS think that once the earth was turned into a Urim and Thummim that we would still be here forever?

This reminds me of a very memorable testimony meeting when I was a youngster. The patriarch of our stake stood up and bore his testimony about how when a man is called to be the prophet, a mighty change takes place. He shared that he had been very skeptical of JFieldingS, due to statements about the moon, etc. but when he became prophet he was a totally different person. I think he said this in relation to Ezra Taft Benson.

And what's up with all the middle initials and all that? I saw a signed statement from the Quorum of the Twelve and every one of their signatures contained an initial. I wonder if it is a requirement to start signing with an initial for your middle name (or your first name). Hmm, small minds want to know.

SteelBlue · 08-12-2005, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

OR SO THEY SAY!!! IF YOU BELIEVE IT WASN'T A HOLLYWOOD SOUNDSTAGE!

LOL!! I actually met a man on my mission who was very much convinced that this was the case. At the time, it had never crossed my mind that there were people who believed that it was all a government plot. He sure was convinced.

08-11-2005, 05:10 PM	#1
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	evolution.... question.... what is the debate with evolution, and how do dinosaurs fit into the equation? 'The Lord pronounced the earth good when it was finished. Everything upon its face was called good. There was no death in the earth before the fall of Adam. I do not care what the scientists say in regard to dinosaurs and other creatures upon the earth millions of years ago, that lived and died and fought and struggled for existence. When the earth was created and was declared good, peace was upon its face among all its creatures. Strife and wickedness were not found here, neither was there any corruption.' joseph f smith doctrines of salvation..... how did the fall actually happen?

08-11-2005, 05:34 PM	#3
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	ive heard that as well.... it seems though that smith makes it clear that no death happened anywhere on the earth.... i always thought that maybe adam and eve and certain creations lived inside the garden without any death, the fall occurred and they were brought into the real world.... smith teaches, if im correct, that the fall was an actual physical removal of earth from close proximity to god and that this subsequent fall left the earth with physical death.... the quote i used suggests that no death existed on the face of the earth... so i guess the real question is, how does evolution fit into this paradigm and what the freak is the deal with dinosaurs?

08-11-2005, 06:10 PM	#4
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Speculate as you wish were Adam and his kind generated elsewhere and brought to earth, where death and life had occurred for millions of years previous? Who knows? We don't. Spiritually, Adam is the first man.

08-11-2005, 07:01 PM	#5
SteelBlue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norcal Posts: 5,821	Re: ive heard that as well.... [quote="fusnik11"]it seems though that smith makes it clear that no death happened anywhere on the earth....quote] I think you also have to remember that the book you took the quote from is not scripture. Joseph F. Smith wrote many books and they contain some opinion. I recall reading one of the "Answers to Gospel Questions" books and he states that man will not go into outer space because God would not allow that. Clearly that was his opinion. Perhaps on this topic he wrote his opinion on the matter vs. the accepted doctrine of the church. It is my understanding that the church has very little "official doctrine" on the matter.

08-12-2005, 12:20 AM	#8
Dan Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Elk Grove, California Posts: 211	Here is the quote Joseph Fielding Smith: May 14, 1961: "We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it....The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen." Dan's Historical addendum: July 20, 1969, man lands on the moon. __________________ Dan Temet Nosce - \"Know Thyself\"

08-11-2005, 05:29 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I asked my dad about this a long time ago. His suggestion was that death did not exist in the Garden of Eden, but that death occurred outside of the Garden. I don't know that he had any doctrinal/prophetic support for this viewpoint.

08-11-2005, 07:29 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Yeah, I think it was Joseph Fielding Smith who said that man would never go to the moon, not God's will, etc. This was before he was the prophet. Dan!?