Goat's post on BB team

[jay santos]

Is it OK for me to repost for you goat? I'll respond in another post.


Author: Goatnapper'96
Date: Feb 9, 09:35am
Category: Basketball (college)


and or the 2003-2004 clubs?

The 2003 club was tough. Travis Hansen was a tough competitor and really got that team rolling. Probably the best defensive team I ever saw at BYU. Rafe could board like a madman and Travis could control any wing player the Y would face. The achiles heal was the 4 position, marginal to abysmal pg play and if Rafe got himself in foul trouble. The choke against Utah and against CSU in the MWC tourney shot the club in the foot and they got a 12 seed and lost a tough game to a good UConn club.

The 2004 club was very talented and deep. Lemes was an above average pg, Hall brought Travis athleticism and defense, Raffie was 2x the player as a senior. Bigelow was as well rounded a player as we could have asked, even though his 3 point shooting struggled. Really it was a team that did not have any huge holes and it should have been better than it was. That club just went through a horrendous patch in late Dec-early Jan that screwed them with choke jobs in Logan, San Diego and Albaquerque along with failing to compete in Raleigh against NC State. However, they rebounded and ended the year on a 8 game win streak with a big win over a solid UNLV team in Vegas playing the best a BYU hoops team had in years. Then after defeating WYO in the MWC tourney they laid an egg against Utah in the MWC tourney semifinals that was unbelievably deflating. It also ensured another sucky seed. The team showed admirable resiliency and the coaching staff put together its best gameplan of the Cleveland era. However, Jerry MacNamara had his career game and it was all for nought. This end of season roller coaster ride symbolized the Cleveland era...oh so close but yet so far.

I don't think this club is as talented as the 2004 club, but I do think it is more talented than the 2003 club. It doesn't have a total dominating stud like Hafa in 2004 or Travis in 2003, but it has some aspects that are difficult to deal with. Principally it has two legitimate post players that can both go for 20+ any night. That is rare in college hoops and makes BYU very difficult to defend. The Y also has some good outside shooters that can kill you if double in the post. The pg play is as good if not better than 2004, and much beyond the 2003 club. Lee Cummard is developing into that defensive stopper and while I don't think he is as good as Travis was in 2003, he is better than what Hall brought in 2004. This club is also fairly deep. There is a huge dropoff at the 5 as neither Vuk nor Gavin are nearly the player Jake "the Intangible" Schoff was and Murdock used to make me nervous. However, with JTav coming in at the 4 and BYU having two legitimate post scorers, the fact that our reserve 5's can't score is negated by keeping Keena on the floor or watching JTav drain a 3. Murdock is also starting to demonstrate that he can manage a team for 5-10 minutes a half.

I don't know if I am yet convinced Dave Rose is a step up from Cleveland. I think he is and I am convinced that he is definitely no worse, but the 2004 club was rolling with a head of steam like this team and then found a way to choke. Time will tell. I do see some differences though. I think the offense is more effective now, and I think the club has more confidence on the road. I think Rose is a tougher guy than Cleveland and he imbues that personality on his team. I have yet to confuse Rose with Majerus, but I do believe BYU is more mentally tough than they were under Cleveland. Last year I mentioned that it is easier to go from bad to average than it is to go from average to good. Early this year it appeared that Rose was struggling to nudge his club another notch and get into the realm of good, however after that few minute choke job in Fort Collins, I think Dave Rose gave this club a huge freaking shove and I am on the bandwagon for this team. I believe BYU will only lose one more MWC game and will win the championship outright at 13-3. They will then lose a tough fought game to UNLV for the MWC tourney championship on UNLV's home court. I think the Cougars will then get either a 6-7 seed and will secure their first NCAA win in a very, very long time.

-----

He had me at New Mexico...He had me at New Mexico.

Go Army Beat Navy!

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Is it OK for me to repost for you goat? I'll respond in another post.


Author: Goatnapper'96
Date: Feb 9, 09:35am
Category: Basketball (college)


and or the 2003-2004 clubs?

The 2003 club was tough. Travis Hansen was a tough competitor and really got that team rolling. Probably the best defensive team I ever saw at BYU. Rafe could board like a madman and Travis could control any wing player the Y would face. The achiles heal was the 4 position, marginal to abysmal pg play and if Rafe got himself in foul trouble. The choke against Utah and against CSU in the MWC tourney shot the club in the foot and they got a 12 seed and lost a tough game to a good UConn club.

The 2004 club was very talented and deep. Lemes was an above average pg, Hall brought Travis athleticism and defense, Raffie was 2x the player as a senior. Bigelow was as well rounded a player as we could have asked, even though his 3 point shooting struggled. Really it was a team that did not have any huge holes and it should have been better than it was. That club just went through a horrendous patch in late Dec-early Jan that screwed them with choke jobs in Logan, San Diego and Albaquerque along with failing to compete in Raleigh against NC State. However, they rebounded and ended the year on a 8 game win streak with a big win over a solid UNLV team in Vegas playing the best a BYU hoops team had in years. Then after defeating WYO in the MWC tourney they laid an egg against Utah in the MWC tourney semifinals that was unbelievably deflating. It also ensured another sucky seed. The team showed admirable resiliency and the coaching staff put together its best gameplan of the Cleveland era. However, Jerry MacNamara had his career game and it was all for nought. This end of season roller coaster ride symbolized the Cleveland era...oh so close but yet so far.

I don't think this club is as talented as the 2004 club, but I do think it is more talented than the 2003 club. It doesn't have a total dominating stud like Hafa in 2004 or Travis in 2003, but it has some aspects that are difficult to deal with. Principally it has two legitimate post players that can both go for 20+ any night. That is rare in college hoops and makes BYU very difficult to defend. The Y also has some good outside shooters that can kill you if double in the post. The pg play is as good if not better than 2004, and much beyond the 2003 club. Lee Cummard is developing into that defensive stopper and while I don't think he is as good as Travis was in 2003, he is better than what Hall brought in 2004. This club is also fairly deep. There is a huge dropoff at the 5 as neither Vuk nor Gavin are nearly the player Jake "the Intangible" Schoff was and Murdock used to make me nervous. However, with JTav coming in at the 4 and BYU having two legitimate post scorers, the fact that our reserve 5's can't score is negated by keeping Keena on the floor or watching JTav drain a 3. Murdock is also starting to demonstrate that he can manage a team for 5-10 minutes a half.

I don't know if I am yet convinced Dave Rose is a step up from Cleveland. I think he is and I am convinced that he is definitely no worse, but the 2004 club was rolling with a head of steam like this team and then found a way to choke. Time will tell. I do see some differences though. I think the offense is more effective now, and I think the club has more confidence on the road. I think Rose is a tougher guy than Cleveland and he imbues that personality on his team. I have yet to confuse Rose with Majerus, but I do believe BYU is more mentally tough than they were under Cleveland. Last year I mentioned that it is easier to go from bad to average than it is to go from average to good. Early this year it appeared that Rose was struggling to nudge his club another notch and get into the realm of good, however after that few minute choke job in Fort Collins, I think Dave Rose gave this club a huge freaking shove and I am on the bandwagon for this team. I believe BYU will only lose one more MWC game and will win the championship outright at 13-3. They will then lose a tough fought game to UNLV for the MWC tourney championship on UNLV's home court. I think the Cougars will then get either a 6-7 seed and will secure their first NCAA win in a very, very long time.

-----

He had me at New Mexico...He had me at New Mexico.

Go Army Beat Navy!

2003 < 2007 < 2004 but all three teams are fairly close

I concur with your analysis. 2004 team stumbled early but was a very good team, playing like a top 20 team the last month of the season. They could have easily made a sweet 16 run, but they ran into a buzzsaw with McNamara and Syracuse--and still had a late three point attempt by Bigs to tie or win can't remember.

The 2003 team Hansen carried them on his back. Haffa was extremely raw, improving a lot the next year.

This team has to close out the season well, but they are playing more like the 2004 team right now. We'll see how far they take it. Plaisted is about as good a 5 as you'll find in the college game. Keena is unstoppable at the 4. Throw in the three point shooting and adequate ball handling and you have a great college offense. Defensively is the gray area. If the big guys stay out of foul trouble and we rebound, we'll play with anyone.