Are we really ready for a politician that...

[UteStar]

Originally Posted by YOhio

lol! You think my name has anything to do with the buckeye state? It's a greeting to all my dear friends on this site. Yo Hi O. It's my hope that it brightens everybody's day. Letting you know that somebody cares. Cares enough to say Yo. To say Hi. To say O.

Y'all talk weird in the buckeye state. My day has not been brightened when I see your moniker. My moniker on the other hand gives hope to all of those striving to live on the Ute Star in above celestial glory one day.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

On the third point, yes, I'm challenging the assumption that it's always wrong to abort a severely handicapped child, as LDS theology holds that the spirit doesn't enter into the body until a certain point, otherwise there would be zero tolerance in LDS theology / doctrine for abortion in the case of incest, rape, or any other circumstance.

Sorry, I missed this lesson in seminary. Care to document this belief?

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

Edit - let me elaborate on the 3rd point. Given the LDS position on abortion, could it *not* be considered compassionate, even loving, to abort a Downs pregnancy?

Do you support (or do you find that LDS theology implicitly supports) euthanasia?

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Tex

Sorry, I missed this lesson in seminary. Care to document this belief?

I've heard this dozens of times, from a variety of sources. Where in LDS doctrine / theology does it explicitly prohibit abortion in all instances?

Do you support (or do you find that LDS theology implicitly supports) euthanasia?

I can't speak for LDS theology on this point, but personally, I could support euthanasia in certain, limited situations. Only a sadist would prohibit euthanasia in any & all situations. That's my personal opinion.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

I've heard this dozens of times, from a variety of sources. Where in LDS doctrine / theology does it explicitly prohibit abortion in all instances?



I can't speak for LDS theology on this point, but personally, I could support euthanasia in certain, limited situations. Only a sadist would prohibit euthanasia in any & all situations. That's my personal opinion.

there is no explanation for the handbook policy on abortion. comprende?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

I've heard this dozens of times, from a variety of sources. Where in LDS doctrine / theology does it explicitly prohibit abortion in all instances?

Those dozens of sources could all have been quite non-authoritative. I'm not aware of any official (or unofficial, for that matter) doctrine on when the spirit enters the body, though I'm sure there's speculation.

Likewise I'm not aware of any doctrine that prohibits abortion "in all instances."

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

I can't speak for LDS theology on this point, but personally, I could support euthanasia in certain, limited situations. Only a sadist would prohibit euthanasia in any & all situations. That's my personal opinion.

Fine. Personally I see no compassion in preemptively euthanizing a Down's Syndrome child.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

there is no explanation for the handbook policy on abortion. comprende?

I'm at a serious disadvantage when navigating what is & what is not LDS doctrine, policy, "practice", et al. Mea culpa.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Tex

Fine. Personally I see no compassion in preemptively euthanizing a Down's Syndrome child.

So where is the compassion in euthanizing a child produced from rape? Isn't a child from rape in (arguably) a better position than one of severe handicap? In other words, which way is it? What is the population of Downs syndrome children in the LDS population relative to historic average? (I see fewer Downs kids in Utah, personally - not a valid statistically survey).

Or is this really a mullah position?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

So where is the compassion in euthanizing a child produced from rape? Isn't a child from rape in (arguably) a better position than one of severe handicap? In other words, which way is it? What is the population of Downs syndrome children in the LDS population relative to historic average? (I see fewer Downs kids in Utah, personally - not a valid statistically survey).

Or is this really a mullah position?

I don't see it as an issue of compassion, nor am I in the business of ranking quality of life (as it concerns abortion). My guess (read: non-authoritative answer) is that abortion is permitted in the case of rape because the pregnancy was a product of an extraordinarily violent, non-consensual act, and not because the value of the life itself is less.

I have no idea what the proportions of Down's syndrome children in Utah are, nor do I care. I do know that the church would not sanction aborting a child for that reason.

[Coonass]

Public Issues

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Political Neutrality

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Abortion

Same-Gender Attraction

Embryonic Stem-cell Research

Euthanasia and Prolonging Life

Capital Punishment

Abortion
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in the sanctity of human life. Therefore, the Church opposes elective abortion for personal or social convenience, and counsels its members not to submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions.

The Church allows for possible exceptions for its members when:

• Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or

• A competent physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or

• A competent physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.

The Church teaches its members that even these rare exceptions do not justify abortion automatically. Abortion is a most serious matter and should be considered only after the persons involved have consulted with their local church leaders and feel through personal prayer that their decision is correct.

The Church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Coonass

Abortion
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in the sanctity of human life. Therefore, the Church opposes elective abortion for personal or social convenience, and counsels its members not to submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions.

The Church allows for possible exceptions for its members when:

• Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or

• A competent physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or

• A competent physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.

The Church teaches its members that even these rare exceptions do not justify abortion automatically. Abortion is a most serious matter and should be considered only after the persons involved have consulted with their local church leaders and feel through personal prayer that their decision is correct.

The Church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion.

Fair enough. If I can produce statistics of Downs syndrome in Utah over time, and that number has diminished significantly, even accounting (reasonably) for non-LDS or non-active LDS population bases, would it be reasonable to infer that there are (by the LDS standard) an increase in the number of murderers in the LDS ranks in Utah?

(By no means am I implying there are more murderers, and I do acknowledge Tex's disinterest. I'm not trying to slam LDS here, either, honestly. I'm just pressing the limits in ideology here.)