Half of doctors routinely prescribe placebos - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

ERCougar · 10-24-2008, 04:34 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/he...tml?ref=health

What does everyone think about this? I have my thoughts, but I'm curious to hear the patient side.

landpoke · 10-24-2008, 04:42 PM

I think this makes you quacks history's greatest monsters.

landpoke · 10-24-2008, 04:48 PM

P.S. I have no problem with this. Whole lotta self-diagnosis and hypochondria going on out there.

il Padrino Ute · 10-24-2008, 04:52 PM

I don't see this as something to worry about. If the patient feels that the treatment is sufficient, I say go for it.

I agree with landpoke in that there seems to be a lot of hypochondria out there.

ERCougar · 10-24-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landpoke

P.S. I have no problem with this. Whole lotta self-diagnosis and hypochondria going on out there.

Exactly. I have a hard time believing a doctor would ever prescribe a placebo for any serious illness. It's those high-maintenance patients that feel like they need something for everything that are getting placebos. It's better than giving them expensive and sometimes dangerous workups, and they're not going to accept the explanation that we're giving them a placebo and they'll get better just as quickly.

Here's a little trickier example for you, though. There are multiple studies that show no advantage to taking an antibiotic over placebo for bronchitis. Similar studies exist for sinusitis. Yet there certainly is a placebo effect, meaning that patients who take SOMETHING get better than not taking anything at all. This one's tricky, because there are occasional serious side effects that occur from antibiotics.

Hot Lunch · 10-24-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by landpoke

P.S. I have no problem with this. Whole lotta self-diagnosis and hypochondria going on out there.

My father in law is a doctor and he has vented on a couple of occasions about times that no matter what he did or said some of his patients insisted that they had something wrong with them and wouldn't leave his office until something was done. He never revealed any info more than that or told me what the end result was but I could tell how frustrated he has gotten with patients insisting on some sort of treatment. There are some real whack jobs out there.

RockyBalboa · 10-24-2008, 07:10 PM

I would also think that addiction comes into play somehow.

The numbers of people addicted to prescription drugs leads desperate people to many Doctors offices for any little "sniffle" or "ache" trying to get their fix.

And some Doctors either not wanting to be a part of it or just wanting to get them out of the office prescribe the placebo.

Archaea · 10-24-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I would also think that addiction comes into play somehow.

The numbers of people addicted to prescription drugs leads desperate people to many Doctors offices for any little "sniffle" or "ache" trying to get their fix.

And some Doctors either not wanting to be a part of it or just wanting to get them out of the office prescribe the placebo.

Not all drugs are physiologically dependency creating. Some are only psychologically so.

jay santos · 10-24-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/he...tml?ref=health

What does everyone think about this? I have my thoughts, but I'm curious to hear the patient side.

how exactly do you prescribe a placebo?

CardiacCoug · 10-24-2008, 09:50 PM

If they mean prescribing an antibiotic when you are 99% sure the patient just has a viral infection, then I'm sure a lot of MDs prescribe placebos in that sense. I guess when you know it's not likely to have any effect, it is basically a placebo. But I don't ever lie to patients -- I would tell them it was not likely to work.

I saw a Lutheran Priest in a Minnesota urgent care several years ago who got laryngitis 3 days before Easter Sunday. He demanded an antibiotic. I told him antibiotics don't work for laryngitis -- it's a viral illness. He insisted that if I didn't give him an antibiotic he wouldn't be able to preach his sermon on Easter Sunday and it would be a disaster for his church. He asked me where I was from and figured out I was LDS. Then he thought I was holding back on giving him medication for religious reasons. I finally relented and gave him an antibiotic prescription while telling him it wasn't going to work. But as I think about that I don't consider that using a placebo because I didn't pretend like I thought it would work. I didn't lie to him.

A lot of docs use IV Toradol as basically a placebo for pain relief in the ER. It has the same pain relieving ability as ibuprofen, but because it is an IV medication, patients think they're getting the really good stuff. I've used that trick a lot. Again, I'm not sure it's a placebo because it is an active pain medication, just not the narcotic that patients are thinking they are getting.

It really depends on how you define a placebo. I imagine that very few doctors actually give a sugar pill and tell the patients it's an active medication. I don't even know how you could arrange that -- maybe give people gummy bears or something?

10-24-2008, 04:34 PM	#1
ERCougar Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,589	Half of doctors routinely prescribe placebos http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/he...tml?ref=health What does everyone think about this? I have my thoughts, but I'm curious to hear the patient side.

10-24-2008, 04:42 PM	#2
landpoke Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Central God's Country Posts: 1,534	I think this makes you quacks history's greatest monsters. __________________ I see a hobo. And when I see the hobo, I think to myself, "This man is poor. His monetary value is low, and my monetary value is high, and it's a shame that he is himself. What can I do?"

10-24-2008, 04:48 PM	#3
landpoke Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Central God's Country Posts: 1,534	P.S. I have no problem with this. Whole lotta self-diagnosis and hypochondria going on out there. __________________ I see a hobo. And when I see the hobo, I think to myself, "This man is poor. His monetary value is low, and my monetary value is high, and it's a shame that he is himself. What can I do?"

10-24-2008, 04:52 PM	#4
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	I don't see this as something to worry about. If the patient feels that the treatment is sufficient, I say go for it. I agree with landpoke in that there seems to be a lot of hypochondria out there. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

10-24-2008, 07:10 PM	#7
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	I would also think that addiction comes into play somehow. The numbers of people addicted to prescription drugs leads desperate people to many Doctors offices for any little "sniffle" or "ache" trying to get their fix. And some Doctors either not wanting to be a part of it or just wanting to get them out of the office prescribe the placebo. __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'.

10-24-2008, 09:50 PM	#10
CardiacCoug Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 471	If they mean prescribing an antibiotic when you are 99% sure the patient just has a viral infection, then I'm sure a lot of MDs prescribe placebos in that sense. I guess when you know it's not likely to have any effect, it is basically a placebo. But I don't ever lie to patients -- I would tell them it was not likely to work. I saw a Lutheran Priest in a Minnesota urgent care several years ago who got laryngitis 3 days before Easter Sunday. He demanded an antibiotic. I told him antibiotics don't work for laryngitis -- it's a viral illness. He insisted that if I didn't give him an antibiotic he wouldn't be able to preach his sermon on Easter Sunday and it would be a disaster for his church. He asked me where I was from and figured out I was LDS. Then he thought I was holding back on giving him medication for religious reasons. I finally relented and gave him an antibiotic prescription while telling him it wasn't going to work. But as I think about that I don't consider that using a placebo because I didn't pretend like I thought it would work. I didn't lie to him. A lot of docs use IV Toradol as basically a placebo for pain relief in the ER. It has the same pain relieving ability as ibuprofen, but because it is an IV medication, patients think they're getting the really good stuff. I've used that trick a lot. Again, I'm not sure it's a placebo because it is an active pain medication, just not the narcotic that patients are thinking they are getting. It really depends on how you define a placebo. I imagine that very few doctors actually give a sugar pill and tell the patients it's an active medication. I don't even know how you could arrange that -- maybe give people gummy bears or something?