My #1 political concern

[ERCougar]

The national debt.

Why is this completely absent from the conversation? Besides the continual weight on our economic growth, stealing from our kids to feed our greed is just plain wrong. McCain used to have a solid record as a deficit hawk; now that's just a distant memory. I have no idea what to think about Obama in this regard, but he's not too reassuring.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

The national debt.

Me too me too!

That's why I can't support McCain. No way no how. His deficit spending proposal is obscene, and that's assuming he doesn't initiate any further military interventions. He should really be ashamed of himself.

Two decades of completely unconscionable and unsustainable fiscal policy is quite enough, don't you think?

I don't know why people don't care. I don't think they really understand how far our currency's worth has fallen, and how much of that decrease is attributable to our fiscal policy (or perhaps lack thereof).

.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Me too me too!

That's why I can't support McCain. No way no how. His deficit spending proposal is obscene, and that's assuming he doesn't initiate any further military interventions. He should really be ashamed of himself.

Two decades of completely unconscionable and unsustainable fiscal policy is quite enough, don't you think?

I don't know why people don't care. I don't think they really understand how far our currency's worth has fallen, and how much of that decrease is attributable to our fiscal policy (or perhaps lack thereof).

Listened to a local right-wing radio program on the way to work. It was astonishing just how ignorant & inept both the callers & host were. Probably a half dozen attempts were made by multiple participants to figure out each citizen's portion of the bailout package is, ranging from - believe it or not - $450 per citizen to several hundred $Billion per citizen. (We're talking basic, fundamental 3rd grade arithmetic here, with a half dozen contestants taking a shot.)

Various callers' solutions to the financial problems were "get government out of the situation!" (with no elaboration of how that would help right now), "let the fat cats fail!" (no calls of class warfare on the remark, though), "If they'd lower our taxes this would all sort out", to "Detroit wants a bailout, but they'd be just fine if govt would eliminate the CAFE mileage standards. Let the free market work!" (As though CAFE was an impediment to progress? Worse mileage would somehow solve the energy crisis?)

Zero credible thinking. None. (I'm an unabashed elitest on this one.) Nothing but mindless parroting of conservative dogma, with no understanding of the issues underlying... really, any topic discussed. There's no shortage of idiots on the left, too, no question.

We're in deep shit, folks.

[Tex]

The sky is falling too.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

The national debt.

Why is this completely absent from the conversation? Besides the continual weight on our economic growth, stealing from our kids to feed our greed is just plain wrong. McCain used to have a solid record as a deficit hawk; now that's just a distant memory. I have no idea what to think about Obama in this regard, but he's not too reassuring.

Because doing something about it would require taking a stand on issues that Americans don't like: cutting services or raising taxes.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Because doing something about it would require taking a stand on issues that Americans don't like: cutting services or raising taxes.

Wow! Mike said something smart!

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Because doing something about it would require taking a stand on issues that Americans don't like: cutting services or raising taxes.

Spending growth for Veterans Affairs is out of this world. The most inefficient part of government -- the military and veterans affairs -- is untouchable. That sucks for the taxpayer.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Levin

Spending growth for Veterans Affairs is out of this world. The most inefficient part of government -- the military and veterans affairs -- is untouchable. That sucks for the taxpayer.

Veterans deserve better than to be put in the crappy health insurance association that middle class Americans are in. Hence VAs.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Me too me too!

That's why I can't support McCain. No way no how. His deficit spending proposal is obscene, and that's assuming he doesn't initiate any further military interventions. He should really be ashamed of himself.

Two decades of completely unconscionable and unsustainable fiscal policy is quite enough, don't you think?

I don't know why people don't care. I don't think they really understand how far our currency's worth has fallen, and how much of that decrease is attributable to our fiscal policy (or perhaps lack thereof).

.

I agree with you on McCain. The crazy right-wing "conservatives" have gotten to him. The old McCain would have never gone along with his current proposal.

However, I'm not sure how you can be much more sure about Obama. I've seen many question whether his payment mechanisms can match his promised spending. I'm just afraid he's being naive (or dishonest), and I guess if I have a choice out of deficit spending and big government and deficit spending and small government, I'll choose the latter--rectifying things is easier.

I'm open to either candidate, in the end. Whoever can convince me that they care about balancing the budget gets my (totally meaningless) vote.

[SCcoug]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

The national debt.

Why is this completely absent from the conversation? Besides the continual weight on our economic growth, stealing from our kids to feed our greed is just plain wrong. McCain used to have a solid record as a deficit hawk; now that's just a distant memory. I have no idea what to think about Obama in this regard, but he's not too reassuring.

Solving the debt would require hard choices and difficult compromises from both parties, cutting programs and raising taxes, getting out of costly wars ect. And we'd all have to adjust our personal spending habits and stop our personal deficit spending.

Another problem is the definition of national debt, what number do you use? The treasury website shows that publicly held debt is at 5.6 trillion. It also shows that intra government loans, like dipping in to SS funds, is at 4.1 trillion. That's 9.7 trillion right there. If you add in future SS, medicare, medicaid, it would be much much more. I've heard estimates from 41 trillion to 65 trillion, and that's just national government. Add in household debt it gets worse.

I agree its a big problem we aren't addressing. Seems like we by and large wait until a problem turns into a crisis before we address it and then we scrabble to fix it. Why not confront it now in a calm, reasonable well though out way instead in a frantic manner that we probably won't like the solution.

Sources:
On page 32 it says futre budget shortfall for benifits are 47 trillion over next 75 years.
http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2007/07frusg.pdf

A paper on US debt and possible solutions from the St Louis Fed
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publi.../Kotlikoff.pdf

US Credit market as percentage of GDP
http://www.rgemonitor.com/globalmacr...e_fainthearted

Aritcle on US household debt
http://www.levy.org/pubs/ppb_88.pdf