Bring on the pork ...

[Tex]

Republicans release a list of pork in the "stimulus" bill. Take a look and tell me if you think any of these are legit:

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Tex

Republicans release a list of pork in the "stimulus" bill. Take a look and tell me if you think any of these are legit:

The advantage of being in the minority is that you get to vote against bills like this.

[SoCalCoug]

Are you being facetious, Tex? A lot of those look like pretty legitimate expenses. I mean, people need sewers and waste disposal, and stuff.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Are you being facetious, Tex? A lot of those look like pretty legitimate expenses. I mean, people need sewers and waste disposal, and stuff.

I was using the term "legit" in the sense of "legitimate stimulus expenses." I guess we'd have to know more specifics to define exactly how legitimate they are in the broader sense of Washington spending, but regardless, this is not stimulus. This is pork.

Or perhaps you'd like to make the case for how $125m for Washington sewers stimulates the economy.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Tex

I was using the term "legit" in the sense of "legitimate stimulus expenses." I guess we'd have to know more specifics to define exactly how legitimate they are in the broader sense of Washington spending, but regardless, this is not stimulus. This is pork.

Or perhaps you'd like to make the case for how $125m for Washington sewers stimulates the economy.

This kind of pork is in practically any bill, regardless of what the advertised purpose of the bill is. Like I said, you get to vote against this if you're in the minority without suffering any political fallout.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

I was using the term "legit" in the sense of "legitimate stimulus expenses." I guess we'd have to know more specifics to define exactly how legitimate they are in the broader sense of Washington spending, but regardless, this is not stimulus. This is pork.

Or perhaps you'd like to make the case for how $125m for Washington sewers stimulates the economy.

?

Why would you take the position that none of the items above "stimulate" the economy? Are you under the impression that paying for improvements to water and sewer treatment, for example, goes into a big black hole that nobody benefits from?

There are a few theories on how to stimulate the economy. One theory is that you spend as much as possible, in diverse sectors of the economy, to lift multiple sectors rather than just one. Water and sewer plants hire people. Construction work requires people doing jobs. Those people get money rather than get laid off. You may argue it isn't the BEST way to stimulate the economy (debatable, and nobody really knows), but it is totally absurd to argue it has no effect on the economy at all. Spending of this amount will have an effect. The debate ought to be whether it is the most efficient way of attaining the desired result rather than whether there is any effect at all.

[MikeWaters]

Dramatically increasing pay for guys who build roads, and increasing their numbers, is going to give America an edge that other nations will be sorely jealous of.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Dramatically increasing pay for guys who build roads, and increasing their numbers, is going to give America an edge that other nations will be sorely jealous of.

Keynesian economics, my friend. That is what dug us out of the Great Depression (view WWII as a gigantic spending project of the government, along with all of FDR's programs).

As I mentioned, the idea is to lift multiple sectors of the economy, not just one. That is why there is a lot of spending for R&D as well.

Again, whether or not this bill makes sense is one debate, but Tex's statement that none of the spending he listed does anything to stimulate the economy reflects a deep lack of understanding of economics.

[MikeWaters]

I'm sure the massive delays due to highway and street construction will do wonders for the economy.

One thing is for sure: the Mob will clean house.

[8ballrollin]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Keynesian economics, my friend. That is what dug us out of the Great Depression (view WWII as a gigantic spending project of the government, along with all of FDR's programs)

The New Deal didn't end the Great Depression. And if we're going to bring up the '30s, why is the WH supporting Buy American provisions in the bill? Do they know the history of the Depression?