another case in point against homeschooling?

[Archaea]

For those who successfully "enrich the education of their children, what makes you believe that couldn't be done by simply supplementing existing public resources?

Now, my children are reasonably successful, not overly, but reasonably, and the public resources in our modest town far exceed the enrichment my children availed themselves of.

So in reality, I don't get the need for homeschooling. If you want to enrich, supplement. If you're doing for political/moral reasons, my experience is that those kids end up weird and don't often excel academically. And as Mike has pointed out, show me any studies suggesting homeschooled kids excel above the norm athletically.

Perhaps the only time I can see it being sensible would involve certain types of disabilities, where the care is so specialized, maybe only a highly equipped parent can do it.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

... What about the fact, that many, not necessarily all, are simply weird in social settings...

link?

Oh wait, you just have anecdotal evidence.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

link?

Oh wait, you just have anecdotal evidence.

And your article was so overwhelming. If you aren't aware of this anecdotal evidence, then why discuss it.

Address the point. How would you construct a study for social awkwardness? All I have is my experience and my experience with most homeschoolers regardless of academic abilities is that they usually are behind athletically and I found them to be more of a misfit than I, and that's saying a lot.

Address the other point, why not use your resources to supplement the education instead of supplanting it?

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Again, sociability is a pretty low standard.

Show me the studies that homeschooled kids excel as well in sports as schooled kids.

The sociability standard is most often brought up by those who oppose home schooling. As if that is something important to a child's development that only schools can offer.

But I see your point. How many football players has BYU lost out on because their parents kept them out of public schools, and therefore, the public school sports programs? I'll bet we could have beat Utah if we'd had them...

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

The sociability standard is most often brought up by those who oppose home schooling. As if that is something important to a child's development that only schools can offer.

But I see your point. How many football players has BYU lost out on because their parents kept them out of public schools, and therefore, the public school sports programs? I'll bet we could have beat Utah if we'd had them...

It's not BYU I'm worried about. It's the kids.

Kid in my ward had the potential to be a very good athlete. He's like Spiderman. But he never was given the opportunity by his parents, so he pretty much sucks at all sports. He was pissed when I told him he could have been homeschooled and still played football.

Schools offer a lot of things besides the three R's. If they didn't then home-college would be a great concept.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

And your article was so overwhelming. If you aren't aware of this anecdotal evidence, then why discuss it.

Address the point. How would you construct a study for social awkwardness? All I have is my experience and my experience with most homeschoolers regardless of academic abilities is that they usually are behind athletically and I found them to be more of a misfit than I, and that's saying a lot.

Address the other point, why not use your resources to supplement the education instead of supplanting it?

My point is that the article I put forth was far better than anything you offered up. At least someone who appears to be somewhat of an expert in the area put forth considerable effort, data, and analysis and came to the conclusion that at least in one key aspect of socialization, there is evidence that home schooled kids come out ahead of non-home schooled kids.

In regards to using your resources to supplement the education, two points:

One, some people do. And for those considering home schooling, they ought to consider this as an option. My wife and I have.

Two, given the time demands of school itself, homework, music lessons, extracurricular activities, and so forth, this approach may lead to a more stressful and harried lifestyle than the parents want for their children. Home schooling allows them to improve education while lessening the time demands on their children.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

The sociability standard is most often brought up by those who oppose home schooling. As if that is something important to a child's development that only schools can offer.

But I see your point. How many football players has BYU lost out on because their parents kept them out of public schools, and therefore, the public school sports programs? I'll bet we could have beat Utah if we'd had them...

I agree with Mike and find the metric used to measure "sociability" to be underwhelming.

Why is homeschooling ever superior to parental supplementation?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

My point is that the article I put forth was far better than anything you offered up. At least someone who appears to be somewhat of an expert in the area put forth considerable effort, data, and analysis and came to the conclusion that at least in one key aspect of socialization, there is evidence that home schooled kids come out ahead of non-home schooled kids.

In regards to using your resources to supplement the education, two points:

One, some people do. And for those considering home schooling, they ought to consider this as an option. My wife and I have.

Two, given the time demands of school itself, homework, music lessons, extracurricular activities, and so forth, this approach may lead to a more stressful and harried lifestyle than the parents want for their children. Home schooling allows them to improve education while lessening the time demands on their children.

versus the unstressful and unharried life of being in tough major in a strong university, or going to law school or medical school?

There is always time to bone up on this academic thing or that.

There is rarely going to be time to develop a jump shot and crossover dribble.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

My point is that the article I put forth was far better than anything you offered up. At least someone who appears to be somewhat of an expert in the area put forth considerable effort, data, and analysis and came to the conclusion that at least in one key aspect of socialization, there is evidence that home schooled kids come out ahead of non-home schooled kids.

In regards to using your resources to supplement the education, two points:

One, some people do. And for those considering home schooling, they ought to consider this as an option. My wife and I have.

Two, given the time demands of school itself, homework, music lessons, extracurricular activities, and so forth, this approach may lead to a more stressful and harried lifestyle than the parents want for their children. Home schooling allows them to improve education while lessening the time demands on their children.

You cite one article which very loosely summarizes two studies, conducted by who knows whom with whatever agenda. Not all studies are created equal, but I took the studies at face value, and found them underwhelming.

You also failed to address until now, the supplementation issue.

I would never consider homeschooling because I believe professionals will know more about educating the mind of my children than I do, but I do know some aspects of education which I can stimulate in my children, through supplementation, including introduction to classics, sports, fitness, language, reading, but math instructors are far better at it than I.

Additionally, my children participate at their levels of abilities, be they bad or good, in sports, student government and other clubs. Yes I'm aware some homeschoolers do this, but in our ward, the only homeschoolers are those who disagree with teaching children about sex education. That appears to be their crux.

Do we wish to really teach our kids elitism through homeschooling?

Stress is part of life, and I'd prefer they'd learn sooner rather than later.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

And your article was so overwhelming. If you aren't aware of this anecdotal evidence, then why discuss it.

My anecdotal evidence is different than yours. The first homeschoolers I knew followed the typical stereotype quite closely - very strange and backwards family in many respects, the children were very sheltered and tightly controlled. As the kids grew up, several of them freaked out and became very rebellious and wild.

Understandably, I didn't think much of home schooling for a long time because of this first impression.

But I have changed my viewpoint quite a bit as I have observed and examined the issue over the years. I didn't just take my first impression and let it guide my opinion for the rest of my life.

I have definitely seen a mixed bag in terms of results, as mentioned before. But I have seen some families use home schooling very effectively, and some of the most impressive kids I've known are products of home schools. I think home schooling, properly done, can provide a child with a far superior education to most public schools, and they don't have to turn out weird or backwards. Unfortunately, some do, but some kids come out of public schools pretty messed up, too.