We're screwed

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The really fun part of this exercise is supporters of Obama will sluff off any failure as Bush's fault. When Bush did that for Clinton, it was considered ludicrous, but now that Obama is in power, Bush is the Boogeyman.

Obama is a teflon man as the media is giving him a free pass.

The free pass thing is ludicrous. For the most part, any benefit he gets is based on the fact that we realize we couldn't expect instant results to the tough situation he inherited. Yes, he did inherit, whether you want to attribute that to Bush or Bush and Clinton and on back. That's just the way it goes. All new presidents have to balance being responsible for their own adminstaration with the fact that they are still affected by the choices of the past. Our patience recedes with time, of course, because the effect of the past becomes less in that balance.

Oh, and that chart--what it doesn't say (indeed, what it cannot say) is what the effect would have been without any measures Obama has taken. The projections were wrong? Big deal. Maybe things are better than they would have been. Maybe not. We don't know, which is why that chart is so meaningless.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

The free pass thing is ludicrous. For the most part, any benefit he gets is based on the fact that we realize we couldn't expect instant results to the tough situation he inherited. Yes, he did inherit, whether you want to attribute that to Bush or Bush and Clinton and on back. That's just the way it goes. All new presidents have to balance being responsible for their own adminstaration with the fact that they are still affected by the choices of the past. Our patience recedes with time, of course, because the effect of the past becomes less in that balance.

Oh, and that chart--what it doesn't say (indeed, what it cannot say) is what the effect would have been without any measures Obama has taken. The projections were wrong? Big deal. Maybe things are better than they would have been. Maybe not. We don't know, which is why that chart is so meaningless.

Nonsense. Blaming Bush is politically silly at this point. People are slowing staring to realize this, and it's reflected in the polls. What, has a mannequin been in the Oval Office for the last 9 months? Did a robot sign that massive "stimulus" bill?

That chart is meaningful precisely because it demonstrates how woefully this administration underestimated the recession, and how Candyland their solution has been. Presidents don't get the benefit of some mythical well-we-don't-really-know standard. We can only judge them based on what they say, and what they do. By that measure, Obama's policies have been a failure: they failed to produce anything close to what was promised.

The fact that the administration has resorted to pointing to a mythical "jobs saved" figure, which has since proven to be a pretty questionable number, demonstrates this all the more.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by Tex

Nonsense. Blaming Bush is politically silly at this point. People are slowing staring to realize this, and it's reflected in the polls. What, has a mannequin been in the Oval Office for the last 9 months? Did a robot sign that massive "stimulus" bill?

YOu do realize (ha, as if!), of course, that you just pretty much repeated what I said in a mean-spirited way, and from a right-wing biased way. I said, that politicians inherit, and the more time goes on, the less thy can point blame on the inheritance, which it why your precious polls would indicate a growing realization of that fact.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

The free pass thing is ludicrous. For the most part, any benefit he gets is based on the fact that we realize we couldn't expect instant results to the tough situation he inherited. Yes, he did inherit, whether you want to attribute that to Bush or Bush and Clinton and on back. That's just the way it goes. All new presidents have to balance being responsible for their own adminstaration with the fact that they are still affected by the choices of the past. Our patience recedes with time, of course, because the effect of the past becomes less in that balance.

Oh, and that chart--what it doesn't say (indeed, what it cannot say) is what the effect would have been without any measures Obama has taken. The projections were wrong? Big deal. Maybe things are better than they would have been. Maybe not. We don't know, which is why that chart is so meaningless.

If Bush were in a similar situation, he wouldn't be treated so kindly. Bush never received the favorbable treatment Obama receives. The press would do the country a favor by taking the gloves off and begin pummeling him like they did Bush.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Nonsense. Blaming Bush is politically silly at this point. People are slowing staring to realize this, and it's reflected in the polls. What, has a mannequin been in the Oval Office for the last 9 months? Did a robot sign that massive "stimulus" bill?

That chart is meaningful precisely because it demonstrates how woefully this administration underestimated the recession, and how Candyland their solution has been. Presidents don't get the benefit of some mythical well-we-don't-really-know standard. We can only judge them based on what they say, and what they do. By that measure, Obama's policies have been a failure: they failed to produce anything close to what was promised.

The fact that the administration has resorted to pointing to a mythical "jobs saved" figure, which has since proven to be a pretty questionable number, demonstrates this all the more.

Virtually every economist agrees that the stimulus package helped accelerate the recovery much quicker than it otherwise would have, and slowed job loss significantly. In fact, the portion of the stimulus that economists largely agreed to have been pointless was the tax cut, which the Dems opposed and Republicans demanded. Ironic. Particularly now that Republicans are screaming that the stimulus wasn't efficient enough.

You are like a fan going into the lockerroom at halftime and telling the players what a crappy plan they have, what a terrible leader they have, and how they can't win the game no matter what they do, and it won't inspire anyone.

It certainly doesn't win the game.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Virtually every economist agrees that the stimulus package helped accelerate the recovery much quicker than it otherwise would have, and slowed job loss significantly. In fact, the portion of the stimulus that economists largely agreed to have been pointless was the tax cut, which the Dems opposed and Republicans demanded. Ironic. Particularly now that Republicans are screaming that the stimulus wasn't efficient enough.

You are like a fan going into the lockerroom at halftime and telling the players what a crappy plan they have, what a terrible leader they have, and how they can't win the game no matter what they do, and it won't inspire anyone.

It certainly doesn't win the game.

Virtually every economist alive is a Democrat, so bias is showing. BTW, I love this form of logical fallacy but keep it up, dude.

There is no recovery. I love how people in the media are proclaiming a recovery that people on the streets are not experincing. Yes you may show so fancied up data showing this and that, but the man on the street hasn't experienced a rehire or an increased wage.

There is no recovery. Mark my words, come April when we're faced with soaring interest rates because nobody will buy our T bills. The pain and agony has just begun. The spending spree will just cause us to tailspin further down.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Virtually every economist alive is a Democrat, so bias is showing. BTW, I love this form of logical fallacy but keep it up, dude.

There is no recovery. I love how people in the media are proclaiming a recovery that people on the streets are not experincing. Yes you may show so fancied up data showing this and that, but the man on the street hasn't experienced a rehire or an increased wage.

There is no recovery. Mark my words, come April when we're faced with soaring interest rates because nobody will buy our T bills. The pain and agony has just begun. The spending spree will just cause us to tailspin further down.

Logical fallacy? And "virtually every economist alive is a Democrat?" This is so silly I don't even know where to begin. Have you ever heard of the Chicago school?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

YOu do realize (ha, as if!), of course, that you just pretty much repeated what I said in a mean-spirited way, and from a right-wing biased way. I said, that politicians inherit, and the more time goes on, the less thy can point blame on the inheritance, which it why your precious polls would indicate a growing realization of that fact.

Except that you prefaced your comments with "the free pass thing is ludicrous." While we agree that a president's early legacy is a mix of his own policies with those of his predecessor's, I suspect that you are willing to give Obama a great deal more rope than he deserves. As are the media, of course.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Virtually every economist agrees that the stimulus package helped accelerate the recovery much quicker than it otherwise would have, and slowed job loss significantly. In fact, the portion of the stimulus that economists largely agreed to have been pointless was the tax cut, which the Dems opposed and Republicans demanded. Ironic. Particularly now that Republicans are screaming that the stimulus wasn't efficient enough.

An appeal to the mythical majority.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You are like a fan going into the lockerroom at halftime and telling the players what a crappy plan they have, what a terrible leader they have, and how they can't win the game no matter what they do, and it won't inspire anyone.

It certainly doesn't win the game.

I would be thrilled to see the economy recover in full. I benefit in every way possible by a thriving economy. Unfortunately I think Obama has demonstrated how economically ham-handed he is, and he's only making things worse, particularly in the long run.

[Tex]

I wonder if the angry Lefties would consider this "lying":

Here's a stimulus success story: In Arizona's 15th congressional district, 30 jobs have been saved or created with just $761,420 in federal stimulus spending. At least that's what the Web site set up by the Obama administration to track the $787 billion stimulus says.

There's one problem, though: There is no 15th congressional district in Arizona; the state has only eight districts.

And ABC News has found many more entries for projects like this in places that are incorrectly identified.

Via Drudge.