Apotheosis and Clement of Alexandria

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Honestly SU, I get the feeling that you are arguing against intellectual thought in the church when you left it rather than intellectual thought in the church today. I don't think my view is idiosyncratic when it comes to these things in intellectual Mormon circles. It would have been 30 years ago. I just don't think you will find hardly any Mormons versed in these issues that would deny that you must understand the influence of Greek culture and thought (as well as Hebrew thought) to understand Paul. This is really uncontroversial. I spoke up not because I disagree with you broadly speaking about the importance of Greek language and learning but because in my view you continue to impugn FARMS when as near as I can tell you basic agree on this point.

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?id=168&table=jbms

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?id=168&table=jbms

Its from 1998: 10 years. 30 years is Hyperbole on my part. The Early Christians in Disarray is clearly newer (2 years old now) and in my view more accurately reflects the "FARMS View" on the apostasy (do you really want to argue that you are in a better position to assess the mode view from FARMS?). It a series of articles rather than a single paper 10 years ago. Surely, we should give more weight to a recent multi-author work that argues for the Reynolds point of view rather than a article from 10 years ago.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Excellent Greek? They wrote in Koine Greek which is much simplified. The most complex of the four is John, which employed some knowledge of Greek and Hebrew thought in the logos discussion.

Even I, a complete idiot on Greek can see how Matthew, Mark and Luke are fairly unsophisticated in comparison to difficult passages of Homer, or Plato.

You keep trying to hijack. The point is that they were educated by Greeks, writing for Greeks, employing Greek invented philosophy and dramatic methods. The point is that Christianity as known and practiced by humans in recorded history, ever since before it was called Christianity, is a fusion of Greek culture and Judaism.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You keep trying to hijack. The point is that they were educated by Greeks, writing for Greeks, employing Greek invented philosophy and dramatic methods. The point is that Christianity as known and practiced by humans in recorded history, ever since before it was called Christianity, is a fusion of Greek culture and Judaism.

So? You're stating the obvious. Welcome Mr. Strawman. It also adds Roman influence down the road.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

So? You're stating the obvious. Welcome Mr. Strawman. It also adds Roman influence down the road.

"I know that ... it's so funny you think I don't know that."

Query: Where is the original pristine Gospel (presumably written in Aramaic or Hebrew) adulturated during translation into pagan languages by these pagan influences?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

"I know that ... it's so funny you think I don't know that."

Query: Where is the original pristine Gospel (presumably written in Aramaic or Hebrew) adulturated during translation into pagan languages by these pagan influences?

Resurrect a dead man who transmitted it orally, and I'll present it to you.

Mark actually represents a more Palestinian presentation. Some say Roman, but his presentation is quite interesting, especially if one deconstructs some of the add-ons.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Resurrect a dead man who transmitted it orally, and I'll present it to you.

Mark actually represents a more Palestinian presentation. Some say Roman, but his presentation is quite interesting, especially if one deconstructs some of the add-ons.

JS should have found that man, not plaigarized the Greeks and the English. JS added nothing to our understanding. He detracted from it, tragically.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

JS should have found that man, not plaigarized the Greeks and the English. JS added nothing to our understanding. He detracted from it, tragically.

I'm not going there, even though you're laying the bait.

[All-American]

For the record, BYU's professors involved with studies of Early Christianity with whom I've interacted are huge fans of both Clement and Eusebius.

If we've learned anything from FARMS and from SU, it is that we shouldn't give excessive credence to agenda based scholarship.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You keep trying to hijack.

I don't need to point out the obvious on this, do I?