On the Road with Joseph Smith - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

pelagius · 12-11-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I am saying that perhaps the reason RSR is lukewarmly received is because it leaves JS as much an enigma as before the book was written.

I can get behind this but that is a very different statement than you made earlier. Bushman situates Joseph Smith in the 19th century like no one previously has done. He brings to bear things like the visionary culture of Joseph Smith upbringing and the culture of honor. The book is full of fresh insights about Joseph Smith and particularly about the influences around him and how they shaped his thinking. All of that was new and fresh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It seems that this is not the definitive biography. Maybe one will never be written.

Oh, I agree with this except I would argue for non-members the definitive Biography is still "No Man Knows My History."

pelagius · 12-11-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

But without additional sources, perhaps no breakthrough is possible.

Once again, MW, I don't understand this statement. It seems to want to reduce history to a simple retelling or reciting of a facts. Bushman clearly brings to bear new sources and certainly provides a new or augmented framework.

MikeWaters · 12-11-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelagius

Once again, MW, I don't understand this statement. It seems to want to reduce history to a simple retelling or reciting of a facts.

Let me give you an example, so you can understand. If we were to find a previously unknown diary of Joseph Smith, that contained his thoughts over 20 years, that would be material that would lead to a "breakthrough" in terms of biography.

Jeff Lebowski · 12-11-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It seems that this is not the definitive biography. Maybe one will never be written.

Did you ever finish the book, Mike? Surely you wouldn't be making these comments solely on reviews, would you?

MikeWaters · 12-11-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Did you ever finish the book, Mike? Surely you wouldn't be making these comments solely on reviews, would you?

No. It is pretty dry reading. I only got through the first 400 pages.

I consider the DOM book to be the superior biography of the 2.

pelagius · 12-11-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Let me give you an example, so you can understand. If we were to find a previously unknown diary of Joseph Smith, that contained his thoughts over 20 years, that would be material that would lead to a "breakthrough" in terms of biography.

Of course, I agree with that. However, that is not the only way that a "breakthrough" happens. I think you are giving Bushman's approach and framework far too little credit. Also, it is hard to imagine this led to the lukewarm reception by non-members where the typical reviewer had probably only read Brodie. There is a substantial amount of new information relative to Brodie.

pelagius · 12-11-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

No. It is pretty dry reading. I only got through the first 400 pages.

Finally, a good criticism of the book. Ultimately, I think this is why the book will not be the definitive biography. Its just not as readable or as fun as Brodie. Its far better history but Brodie's prose sparkles and she wraps up Joseph Smith in a neat little bow for her readers.