Annoying Cyclists

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by creekster

What? You're saying that if you are driving on a one lane road and someone comes up behind you at a higher rate of speed you need to move over to let them pass regardless of your speed? I was licensed in Utah for many years and I do not recall that one. Are you sure this is the law?

lol - I really wasn't very specific when I posted that.

I believe the law was for multi-lane roads, with the caveat of being able to 'safely' move over. As I said, there was enough room for four cars to travel abreast, plus a bike lane.


My guess is a vast majority of motorists in Utah haven't the foggiest idea that this law exists. In fact, my guess is that the vast majority of motorists in Utah haven't even read the handbook cover-to-cover.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by creekster

According to my "find" function in acrobat, the handbook only includes the quotation you refernced in one place, which is under the heading "Freeway Driving." Inoterhwords, if you are in the left lane and someone wants to pass, then you need ot move over and let them pass. Otherwsie, this rule does not apply to other streets and certainly not to one lane surface streets (bicycles are typically not allowed on the freeway in any event, making this rule inapplicabel to bicycles as a practical matter).

Correct, I remember now that the law was specifically for multi-lane highways.

Regardless, there's plenty of support in the same document for the cyclist in question NOT having "as much right to the lane" as I did.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Spaz

Correct, I remember now that the law was specifically for multi-lane highways.

Regardless, there's plenty of support in the same document for the cyclist in question NOT having "as much right to the lane" as I did.

I already said I agree that he was not being courteous and is certainly not a good ambassador for cycling, but i do think he had as much right to the lane as you did. Just like a slow car, unless creating a safety hazard, he can be there (now whether this is a good diea or not is another matter).

[bluegoose]

You know, I was perfectly willing to drop this thing several posts ago, but these last two posts deserve some attention.

First of all, you're being awfully selective with which parts of the driver handbook you are choosing to quote. For instance you forgot to quote the section in there that states:

5. Do not crowd bicyclists. When the lane is too narrow to pass a cyclist safely, wait until the next lane is clear and give the bicycle all the rights of any other slow moving vehicle.

or this:

Although bicyclists will normally ride near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, they can legally move left to turn left, to pass a vehicle or another bicycle, or to avoid debris or parked cars.

Are you sure there wasn't any crap on the side of the road, perhaps that he could see that you could not?

And remind me again which three "tips" the cyclist in question broke? With the limited info that you gave us, I can only see one - running the stop sign (I agree, this was inexcusable).

And your quotes :

At any rate, this:

Quote:
If another vehicle wants to pass you,
you must move safely to the right, and you may
not increase your speed until the other vehicle
has passed you.

Combined with this:

Quote:
Bicycle riders on public streets and highways have the
same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers.
Drivers of motor vehicles must treat bicycle riders the
same as drivers of other vehicles.

are irrelevant to this discussion. You said it was a 2 lane road. You wouldn't expect a car to pull over to the side of the road to let you pass, would you? Thats ridiculous.

While he may have been able to pull over the shoulder, you have no way of really knowing if it was safe to ride a bike there. And he was perfectly within his rights, according the the great state of Utah and their DMV handbook, to do what he did.

I'm just sayin', since he's not here to defend himself, someone else has to try.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by creekster

I already said I agree that he was not being courteous and is certainly not a good ambassador for cycling, but i do think he had as much right to the lane as you did. Just like a slow car, unless creating a safety hazard, he can be there (now whether this is a good diea or not is another matter).

Riding Rules
1. Bicyclists must ride with the flow of traffic and as
near to the right side of the road or street as is safe
and practical. On a one-way street in a city, a bike
rider may ride as near as possible to either the
right or left side of the street or roadway.

Any other questions?

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

You know, I was perfectly willing to drop this thing several posts ago, but these last two posts deserve some attention.

First of all, you're being awfully selective with which parts of the driver handbook you are choosing to quote. For instance you forgot to quote the section in there that states:


or this:

Are you sure there wasn't any crap on the side of the road, perhaps that he could see that you could not?

And remind me again which three "tips" the cyclist in question broke? With the limited info that you gave us, I can only see one - running the stop sign (I agree, this was inexcusable).

And your quotes :



are irrelevant to this discussion. You said it was a 2 lane road. You wouldn't expect a car to pull over to the side of the road to let you pass, would you? Thats ridiculous.

While he may have been able to pull over the shoulder, you have no way of really knowing if it was safe to ride a bike there. And he was perfectly within his rights, according the the great state of Utah and their DMV handbook, to do what he did.

I'm just sayin', since he's not here to defend himself, someone else has to try.

-Tips #1, 4, & 6.

Yes, I'm absolutely sure there was nothing unsafe about riding a bicycle within six feet of the curb, which would have easily allowed me the three feet of distance necessary to legally pass him.

I have, indeed, experienced cars pulling over on this portion of road to allow others (including me) to pass. Again, it's a two-lane road, but could easily support four lanes PLUS a bike lane.
That said, yes, it would be ridiculous for a motorist traveling the speed limit to pull over for me. Just as it is ridiculous (not to mention illegal) for a cyclist to ride in the middle of the actual travel lane when it is safe for him to ride closer to the curb.

I actually do have a way of knowing that it was safe for the cyclist to travel on the right side of the lane - I not only could see the road and see that there were no obstructions, but I've driven the road every day for three years and have plenty of experiences passing cars turning left on the right side of the road.

[Spaz]

Again - I had no problem at all with this particular cyclist UNTIL he:

1. Blew through the stop sign without so much as slowing down, and
2. Rode in a position that made it difficult & dangerous to pass him, when he could have safely ridden on the shoulder.


I feel I'm a very courteous driver - especially towards cyclists & motorcyclists. I always try to be extra-cautious around them, understanding that it's my duty, being in the position of inflicting serious injury on a cyclist, to do what I can to make their trip safe.

I feel I'm not out of line in expecting courtesy in return.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Spaz

Any other questions?

Yes. Did you notice that it is a subjective standard? If the Cyclist percevies it is safest for him to take the lane, he can. Do you ride or commute by bike? There are times when you think it is indeed the only safe way. Was your example doing this? I don't know, but there is also no way for you to know. Your perception from inside your car or truck about what's safe is meaningl;ess. It is the rider's perception that matters.

POint is, I don't disagree that it sounds like he was being annoying, but sometimes you just have to suck it up and be annoyed. Look at it like this, it is just a karmic retribution ofr one of the many hundreds of times that I have been crowded by cars, had things thrown at me, or things shouted at me, have been driven off the orad, have been cut off under so many different circumstances that it is hard to recall them all, or have been almost hit by some idiot driver (not to mention them time I was actually hit by an idiot driver who ran through her own sign to broadside me). And that's just me. Sorry you were annoyed, but your attempt to justify your anger through the handbook (which may or may not accurately reflect the law) and place it all on the cyclist is simply misguided.

[Spaz]

BTW - I don't expect the experience to sour me at all on cyclists. For the most part, I've found the vast majority of (adult) cyclists to be quite courteous & easy to share the road with.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Spaz

Again - I had no problem at all with this particular cyclist UNTIL he:

1. Blew through the stop sign without so much as slowing down, and
2. Rode in a position that made it difficult & dangerous to pass him, when he could have safely ridden on the shoulder.


I feel I'm a very courteous driver - especially towards cyclists & motorcyclists. I always try to be extra-cautious around them, understanding that it's my duty, being in the position of inflicting serious injury on a cyclist, to do what I can to make their trip safe.

I feel I'm not out of line in expecting courtesy in return.

I don't disagree with you here. I would hope that all drivers and riders extend courtesy to each other. I also hope you will continue ot be courteous and that the clown who blew through the stop sign will figure out that it is a bad idea.