Stick a fork in him, Landis is done

[MikeWaters]

I don't believe a clean guy dominated a field for that long when everyone else was doping except him.

[Coach McGuirk]

Originally Posted by creekster

That is a good analogy. So many of the winners before and after, as well as his main rivals (whom he dominated) have either proven to be dopers or are strongly suspected of being dopers that it is just hard ot believe he could succeed like he did without the needle. Like you, I hope so and try not to think about it too much.

So, if he is the best of the dopers and dominated it like he did, could we not assume that he would have not done the same if all were clean? I know horrible to think about but some of the comments got me thinking. As a side note, what would everyone consider the doping era? 97' to 07'?

I also cling to LA's innocence and try to remember the stages that were so brilliant and the drama that occurred in those races.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by creekster

If you ahve evidence, put it up. I am not convinced LA doped, but given all that we know about the sport and its dopeurs, it is hard ot believe he didn't.

It does raise an interesting question. Given that apparently every single professional cyclist is doping, are they all operating with the same competitive advantages so doping isn't really a factor in deciding who the best is?

[Mormon Red Death]

I don't believe he doped...

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Coach McGuirk

So, if he is the best of the dopers and dominated it like he did, could we not assume that he would have not done the same if all were clean? I know horrible to think about but some of the comments got me thinking. As a side note, what would everyone consider the doping era? 97' to 07'?

I also cling to LA's innocence and try to remember the stages that were so brilliant and the drama that occurred in those races.

This would depend on how you define doping. For example, amphetemines were used widely and legally in the 60s and 70s (Simpson died climbig Ventoux when he was full to the gills with uppers). If you mean the blood chemsitry/EPO era, it probably dates to earlier than 97. More like 91, which coincides with Indurain's rise. Lemond, who had won the TdF in 90, claims that he came to the race in the best shpae of his life in 91 and the rest of the peloton suddenly seemed to have a different gear. He is convinced that this is the beginning of the EPO era.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

It does raise an interesting question. Given that apparently every single professional cyclist is doping, are they all operating with the same competitive advantages so doping isn't really a factor in deciding who the best is?

This is a question that I am not sure can be answered. THe qualioty of doping, the timing of doping, the effect of doping all vary dramatically from person to person and so it is impossible to tell if it made a difference. Maybe Ullrich goes from being this generation's Poulidor to a nobody. Hard to say.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by creekster

This is a question that I am not sure can be answered. THe qualioty of doping, the timing of doping, the effect of doping all vary dramatically from person to person and so it is impossible to tell if it made a difference. Maybe Ullrich goes from being this generation's Poulidor to a nobody. Hard to say.

What great rider did we miss out on if the top ten were all dirty? Could Andy Hampsten been the second American to wear yellow in Paris?

Also I feel bad for Poulidor.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by RC Vikings

What great rider did we miss out on if the top ten were all dirty? Could Andy Hampsten been the second American to wear yellow in Paris?

Also I feel bad for Poulidor.

Good question. Hampsten was a good one and he faded about when Lemond did. So maybe so. I think it is more likley that Lemond would have won one or two more and that we would not have seen the indurain machine.

Btw, if you express pity for Poulidor again I will have no choice but to demand the withdrawaal of your Merckx quotation from your signature.