Why do some serve missions then leave the church? - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Runner Coug · 11-06-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottie

How Christlike of him.

He came off as a very angry old man.

Bruincoug · 11-06-2008, 11:13 PM

19-25 year olds do lots of things they later regret. and they also do lots of things out of peer pressure. surprisingly, many people also don't believe all of the same things at 26 or 40 or 80 as they did at 19.

there are two pieces to this question:

first, why do you do something you don't believe in?
--some people really want to believe (many are told that if they are willing and work hard, they'll find their testimony on their mission)
--other wants to looks like they believe (for their parents, girlfriends, to set an example for younger siblings, etc.)
--some go out of duty (they feel, while skeptical or non-believing, that they at least owe it to [family/girlfriend/bishop/Church] to try)
--some go out of peer pressure (this is similarly to "duty" but more about fitting in or being one of the group -- than out of a perception that you owe it to somebody/something)
--some, including one roommate from my mission (who i really suspect just felt he owed it to family, but denied that), go because it's a challenge / a rite / a unique experiece, even though they don't have the faith/belief component. my roommate said he went because he and his friends made a pact to go the whole 2 years and not change one bit (i.e. not become spiritual). I would never want to be a Marine or become a hermit, go on a hunger strike or set myself on fire, but some people like challenging themselves, I guess.
--some go, because they're not paying for it: if the branch/ward/stake/mission/parents are willing to pay all of your expense (or heavily subsidize them) for 2 years -- why not? otherwise you have to get a job. lots of people in [slums of some third world country] and/or [mom's basement] would rather do this than support themselves.

I think that many, if not most, of the non-believing missionaries start out with the first one -- at least among probably many other reasons to go -- but, sometimes you're at your best and other times it's easy to forget that you once wanted to believe.

second, why do people stop believing (or acting) like a Mormon should after, at one point, they did believe and act like a Mormon should?

basically, this is just another formulation of the same old question: why do people go inactive/apostate at all -- just with higher stakes "if you already believed and served a mission, how could you go inactive/apostate?!" the potential reasons for going inactive are the same whether you're a former GA or just a high school kid.

Bruincoug · 11-06-2008, 11:24 PM

as to "the mission trash" -- as we referred to the rumors/stories/legends/gossip that floated around our mission --

let's face it, this stuff is golden. you're denied movies, TV, radio and any books other than the missionary library and the scriptures. story-telling becomes an art in the field.
you all know who (a) knows the good stories (b) who tells them the best and even (c) your favorite characters/exploits/stories to hear about. in fact, i bet we were all much better storytellers as missionaries than we are now.

this is how great amazing legends and even religions were born. people sitting around campfires in pre-literate societies swapping yarns. the good story-tellers became famous as did the stories and characters. they took on lives of their own.

the mission trash is quite a phenomenon. some of it is true, some based in truth, most of it is not true (or at least mostly not true -- maybe adopted from something with different people, in a different mission and severely distored) -- i noticed that the legendary, long-departed Elder West took over a growing number of stories in my mission, even though people hearing the story might know it was actually someone else who had done whatever deed.

at the end of the day, 19-25 guys and also the sisters too, do some crazy things. out of 100, X will turn out gay, Y will go inactive, Z will [bad thing] as a missionary. some missions are out of control -- other more in control. but almost as sociological fact, you're never gonna have 150 or 200 kids someplace all doing the right thing--even if they all start out with good intentions.

but the telling and re-telling of the stories is an experience unto itself. and it results in folk legend and later a bunch of: "no way! hot tubs in Gs with sister happened in my mission too!!!" or "no, no, no . . . that was in mission. i knew a guy that was companions with that guy!" from people who believe everything they hear.

creekster · 11-06-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruincoug

as to "the mission trash" -- as we referred to the rumors/stories/legends/gossip that floated around our mission --

let's face it, this stuff is golden. you're denied movies, TV, radio and any books other than the missionary library and the scriptures. story-telling becomes an art in the field.
you all know who (a) knows the good stories (b) who tells them the best and even (c) your favorite characters/exploits/stories to hear about. in fact, i bet we were all much better storytellers as missionaries than we are now.

this is how great amazing legends and even religions were born. people sitting around campfires in pre-literate societies swapping yarns. the good story-tellers became famous as did the stories and characters. they took on lives of their own.

the mission trash is quite a phenomenon. some of it is true, some based in truth, most of it is not true (or at least mostly not true -- maybe adopted from something with different people, in a different mission and severely distored) -- i noticed that the legendary, long-departed Elder West took over a growing number of stories in my mission, even though people hearing the story might know it was actually someone else who had done whatever deed.

at the end of the day, 19-25 guys and also the sisters too, do some crazy things. out of 100, X will turn out gay, Y will go inactive, Z will [bad thing] as a missionary. some missions are out of control -- other more in control. but almost as sociological fact, you're never gonna have 150 or 200 kids someplace all doing the right thing--even if they all start out with good intentions.

but the telling and re-telling of the stories is an experience unto itself. and it results in folk legend and later a bunch of: "no way! hot tubs in Gs with sister happened in my mission too!!!" or "no, no, no . . . that was in mission. i knew a guy that was companions with that guy!" from people who believe everything they hear.

SO, wihch mission did the hot tub thing happen in?

Bruincoug · 11-07-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

SO, wihch mission did the hot tub thing happen in?

duh! the Pre-existence - War in Heaven mission. that's why we all remember it.

smokymountainrain · 11-07-2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottie

How Christlike of him.

If Gibbons was right about those Elders, I could see Christ doing the same thing, actually.

scottie · 11-07-2008, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokymountainrain

If Gibbons was right about those Elders, I could see Christ doing the same thing, actually.

What gives you the impression that Christ would do something like that?

exUte · 11-07-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

One of my best friends from my mission is probably the most talented person I know. Extremely intelligent, athletic, charasmatic, popular. Set ridiculous goals for himself like memorizing 100 vocabulary words (Korean) in a day, read the bible in a month, contact X investigators, etc. And always achieved his goals. We were comps for two months and did amazing work. He was the AP of our mission, and about the only AP I ever knew that was actually liked by his fellow missionaries.

He went away from the church almost immediately after coming home from his mission, still is away, and I don't anticipate him coming back--he's quite settled in to his life. He doesn't share why this came about.

I don't think you can assume missionaries that leave the church after their mission didn't have a testimony of the gospel or went on their mission for the wrong reasons.

sounds like his mission was all about himself.

non sequitur · 11-07-2008, 04:37 AM

When I interviewed with my bishop before my mission, he asked me if I had a testimony. I told him I didn't, so he told me to accept the gospel on faith and that I'd gain a testimony while I was on my mission. I don't regret my mission, but in retrospect I think he gave me some pretty bad advice.

creekster · 11-07-2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokymountainrain

If Gibbons was right about those Elders, I could see Christ doing the same thing, actually.

Leave the gibbons out of this.

11-07-2008, 04:37 AM	#39
non sequitur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,964	When I interviewed with my bishop before my mission, he asked me if I had a testimony. I told him I didn't, so he told me to accept the gospel on faith and that I'd gain a testimony while I was on my mission. I don't regret my mission, but in retrospect I think he gave me some pretty bad advice. __________________ ...You've been under attack for days, there's a soldier down, he's wounded, gangrene's setting in, 'Who's used all the penicillin?' 'Oh, Mark Paxson sir, he's got knob rot off of some tart.'" - Gareth Keenan

11-06-2008, 11:13 PM	#32
Bruincoug Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 50	19-25 year olds do lots of things they later regret. and they also do lots of things out of peer pressure. surprisingly, many people also don't believe all of the same things at 26 or 40 or 80 as they did at 19. there are two pieces to this question: first, why do you do something you don't believe in? --some people really want to believe (many are told that if they are willing and work hard, they'll find their testimony on their mission) --other wants to looks like they believe (for their parents, girlfriends, to set an example for younger siblings, etc.) --some go out of duty (they feel, while skeptical or non-believing, that they at least owe it to [family/girlfriend/bishop/Church] to try) --some go out of peer pressure (this is similarly to "duty" but more about fitting in or being one of the group -- than out of a perception that you owe it to somebody/something) --some, including one roommate from my mission (who i really suspect just felt he owed it to family, but denied that), go because it's a challenge / a rite / a unique experiece, even though they don't have the faith/belief component. my roommate said he went because he and his friends made a pact to go the whole 2 years and not change one bit (i.e. not become spiritual). I would never want to be a Marine or become a hermit, go on a hunger strike or set myself on fire, but some people like challenging themselves, I guess. --some go, because they're not paying for it: if the branch/ward/stake/mission/parents are willing to pay all of your expense (or heavily subsidize them) for 2 years -- why not? otherwise you have to get a job. lots of people in [slums of some third world country] and/or [mom's basement] would rather do this than support themselves. I think that many, if not most, of the non-believing missionaries start out with the first one -- at least among probably many other reasons to go -- but, sometimes you're at your best and other times it's easy to forget that you once wanted to believe. second, why do people stop believing (or acting) like a Mormon should after, at one point, they did believe and act like a Mormon should? basically, this is just another formulation of the same old question: why do people go inactive/apostate at all -- just with higher stakes "if you already believed and served a mission, how could you go inactive/apostate?!" the potential reasons for going inactive are the same whether you're a former GA or just a high school kid.

11-06-2008, 11:24 PM	#33
Bruincoug Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 50	as to "the mission trash" -- as we referred to the rumors/stories/legends/gossip that floated around our mission -- let's face it, this stuff is golden. you're denied movies, TV, radio and any books other than the missionary library and the scriptures. story-telling becomes an art in the field. you all know who (a) knows the good stories (b) who tells them the best and even (c) your favorite characters/exploits/stories to hear about. in fact, i bet we were all much better storytellers as missionaries than we are now. this is how great amazing legends and even religions were born. people sitting around campfires in pre-literate societies swapping yarns. the good story-tellers became famous as did the stories and characters. they took on lives of their own. the mission trash is quite a phenomenon. some of it is true, some based in truth, most of it is not true (or at least mostly not true -- maybe adopted from something with different people, in a different mission and severely distored) -- i noticed that the legendary, long-departed Elder West took over a growing number of stories in my mission, even though people hearing the story might know it was actually someone else who had done whatever deed. at the end of the day, 19-25 guys and also the sisters too, do some crazy things. out of 100, X will turn out gay, Y will go inactive, Z will [bad thing] as a missionary. some missions are out of control -- other more in control. but almost as sociological fact, you're never gonna have 150 or 200 kids someplace all doing the right thing--even if they all start out with good intentions. but the telling and re-telling of the stories is an experience unto itself. and it results in folk legend and later a bunch of: "no way! hot tubs in Gs with sister happened in my mission too!!!" or "no, no, no . . . that was in mission. i knew a guy that was companions with that guy!" from people who believe everything they hear.