ok, so make the argument that BYU in 84 deserved #1 but Utah today doesn't - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

BlueK · 01-09-2009, 05:28 PM

I don't see how you can defend the 84 national championship and then argue that Utah shouldn't be ranked #1 today. The same arguments used against Utah could easily be used against BYU in 84 and probably even more convincingly. One difference was Utah actually beat a highly ranked team in a bowl game. If the BCS existed in 84 the computers would have kept BYU out of the championship game and at best we finish #2 if we win a BCS game against someone. Also, the environment is totally different today. There wasn't nearly the amount of bias against the non-BCS conferences in 84 that there is today. Voters vote differently today than they did then. BCS conference membership is a lot more important and is worth votes in the polls. The pollsters instantly treated Louisville differently as soon as they joined the Big East. Just because they were in the BCS didn't mean their talent was magically better from one year to the next. That BCS label means everything now. It's even changed since 1996. Does anyone really think a 1-loss BYU team in 2009 could get ranked in the top 6?

MikeWaters · 01-09-2009, 05:32 PM

you will feel much better when you stop caring. trust me.

BlueK · 01-09-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you will feel much better when you stop caring. trust me.

I will say I didn't watch the BS Championship game last night and other than the Utah game I didn't watch any of the BS bowls.

MikeWaters · 01-09-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueK

I will say I didn't watch the BS Championship game last night and other than the Utah game I didn't watch any of the BS bowls.

Same here.

I watched the BYU debacle. Watched TCU/BSU (highly entertaining, for a football game). Watched Utah/Alabama. The rest was not worth watching.

il Padrino Ute · 01-09-2009, 06:20 PM

I agree, BlueK.

I joke about '84 not happening because I was on a mission and didn't see it, but the fact of the matter is that BYU was the only undefeated team that year. No other team could make that claim. And according to how a champion was named in those days, BYU was the only logical choice.

Cali Coug · 01-09-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueK

I don't see how you can defend the 84 national championship and then argue that Utah shouldn't be ranked #1 today. The same arguments used against Utah could easily be used against BYU in 84 and probably even more convincingly. One difference was Utah actually beat a highly ranked team in a bowl game. If the BCS existed in 84 the computers would have kept BYU out of the championship game and at best we finish #2 if we win a BCS game against someone. Also, the environment is totally different today. There wasn't nearly the amount of bias against the non-BCS conferences in 84 that there is today. Voters vote differently today than they did then. BCS conference membership is a lot more important and is worth votes in the polls. The pollsters instantly treated Louisville differently as soon as they joined the Big East. Just because they were in the BCS didn't mean their talent was magically better from one year to the next. That BCS label means everything now. It's even changed since 1996. Does anyone really think a 1-loss BYU team in 2009 could get ranked in the top 6?

Of course I can make the argument, it's easy. Voters unanimously voted BYU #1, so did the coaches. Voters didn't unanimously vote Utah #1 (or the coaches). End of story.

Winning the national title is a comparative exercise each year. How did Team A do compared to Teams B, C and D? Part of that analysis inevitably involves asking how Teams A, B, C and D performed last year too, as winning a title frequently involves building on the success of the prior year. Whether or not a given team would be good enough right now to win the title in 1984 isn't relevant. In 1984, BYU fared more favorably than any other team in America. In 2008, Utah fared more favorably than all but OU. Perhaps an undefeated Utah in 2009 would be sufficient. Perhaps not.

By the way, of course a 1 loss BYU team could wind up in the top 6 in 2009. It completely depends on what happens with other teams, when the loss occurs, and who the loss is to. If BYU beats OU and FSU but loses to TCU, could they be in the top 6? Sure, particularly if TCU doesn't have any other losses.

MikeWaters · 01-09-2009, 07:17 PM

the 1984 thing is a mythical national championship.

emphasis on "mythical".

I would point to the Utah effort of 2008 as superior to the 1984 BYU effort. And I don't think it is close.

Archaea · 01-09-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the 1984 thing is a mythical national championship.

emphasis on "mythical".

I would point to the Utah effort of 2008 as superior to the 1984 BYU effort. And I don't think it is close.

Agreed.

Only question I have turns on 2008 being able to defeat 2004. That team was tough.

I wish BYU would emulate Utah in building a football program, and surpass it, of course.

Cali Coug · 01-09-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the 1984 thing is a mythical national championship.

emphasis on "mythical".

I would point to the Utah effort of 2008 as superior to the 1984 BYU effort. And I don't think it is close.

It isn't mythical. It happened. Unanimously. Perhaps Utah's overall achievements are more impressive to you in 2008. The voters didn't seem to think that was relevant in making their decision in 1984.

MikeWaters · 01-09-2009, 09:09 PM

when a bunch of fat old white men sit around and put their finger in the air and tell me who the best team is, excuse me if I don't care.

01-09-2009, 06:20 PM	#5
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	I agree, BlueK. I joke about '84 not happening because I was on a mission and didn't see it, but the fact of the matter is that BYU was the only undefeated team that year. No other team could make that claim. And according to how a champion was named in those days, BYU was the only logical choice. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

01-09-2009, 05:28 PM	#1
BlueK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,368	ok, so make the argument that BYU in 84 deserved #1 but Utah today doesn't I don't see how you can defend the 84 national championship and then argue that Utah shouldn't be ranked #1 today. The same arguments used against Utah could easily be used against BYU in 84 and probably even more convincingly. One difference was Utah actually beat a highly ranked team in a bowl game. If the BCS existed in 84 the computers would have kept BYU out of the championship game and at best we finish #2 if we win a BCS game against someone. Also, the environment is totally different today. There wasn't nearly the amount of bias against the non-BCS conferences in 84 that there is today. Voters vote differently today than they did then. BCS conference membership is a lot more important and is worth votes in the polls. The pollsters instantly treated Louisville differently as soon as they joined the Big East. Just because they were in the BCS didn't mean their talent was magically better from one year to the next. That BCS label means everything now. It's even changed since 1996. Does anyone really think a 1-loss BYU team in 2009 could get ranked in the top 6? Last edited by BlueK; 01-09-2009 at 05:32 PM.

01-09-2009, 05:32 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	you will feel much better when you stop caring. trust me.

01-09-2009, 07:17 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	the 1984 thing is a mythical national championship. emphasis on "mythical". I would point to the Utah effort of 2008 as superior to the 1984 BYU effort. And I don't think it is close.

01-09-2009, 09:09 PM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	when a bunch of fat old white men sit around and put their finger in the air and tell me who the best team is, excuse me if I don't care.