Gems from Elder Bruce R. McConkie

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Elder McConkie

Heresy #4: There are those who believe that the doctrine of salvation for the dead offers men a second chance for salvation.

This is false, false, false. I know a man, now deceased, a non-member of the Church, who was a degenerate, old reprobate, who found pleasure, as he supposed, in living after the manner of the world. A cigarette dangled from his lips, alcohol strenched his breath, and profane and bawdy stories defiled his lips. His moral status left much to be desired. His wife was a member of the Church, as faithful as she could be under the circumstances. One day she said to him, "You know the Church is true; why don't you be baptized?" And he replied, "Of course I know the Church is true, but I have no intention of changing my habits in order to join it. I prefer to live the way I do. But that doesn't worry me in the slightest. I know that as soon as I die, you will have someone go to the temple and do the work for me and everything will come out all right in the end anyway." He died and she did [had the work done in the temple], and it was a total and complete waste of time.

There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, "then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." [Alma 34:33] For those who do not have an opportunity to believe and obey the holy word in this life, the first chance to gain salvation will come in the Spirit World. If those who hear the word for the first time in the realms ahead are the kind of people who would have accepted the gospel here, had the opportunity been afforded them, they will accept it there. Salvation for the dead is for those whose first chance to gain salvation is in the Spirit World.

Now, in the new revelation recently added to our canon of holy writ these words come:

"Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

"Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts." [D&C 137:7-9]

There is no other promise of salvation than the one recited in that revelation. Those who reject the gospel in this life and then receive it in the spirit world go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom.

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

I find it kind of odd that you 'love' a story like that.

I prefer to love different types of gospel stories.

Question johnnyvine, who is to stay Bruce is right? He has been wrong quite a bit concerning mormon doctrine.

[MikeWaters]

is heaven a zero sum game for mullahs?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

I can see loving this. It's a gem in its own right. But strictly in an ironic sort of way. Is that how you mean it? In a sense this passage could not be more distasteful. BRM's outlook is so pat he displays outright immaturity here. But to make matters worse it's pat in a smug, and pitiless sort of way. He pretends to know things for certain no mortal can know, and about which only the most arrogant and insufferable mortals would claim knowledge or even speculate. While judging this man and his wife as if he were God Himself he shows not the slightest bit of compassion or humility. I love this because BRM renders a perfect charicature of poeple such as himeslf while being deadly earnest and not even realizing what a fire and brimstone breathing bafoon he makes himself out to be. It makes me wonder if he was addled when he wrote his infamous tome. How poignant is the irony here considering that he was one of the primary champions of the priesthood ban. I don't pretend to know if he'll be "saved" or burn in hell. But I do know this: From his writings he appears to have been a terrible human being.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Elder McConkie

Belief, humble belief, is the foundation of all righteousness and the beginning of spiritual progression. It goes before good works, opens the door to an eternal store of heavenly truth, and charts the course to eternal life. . . . Belief is the brilliant beacon that marks the course through the waves and woes of the world to that celestial harbor where rest and safety are found.

[Hazzard]

And I quote ...

"Joseph (Smith, Jr.) insisted more than once that 'all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved.'"

[JohnnyLingo]

Perhaps Elder McConkie's most stirring testimony was delivered in General Conference just days before his death:

Originally Posted by Elder McConkie

I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears.

But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.”

(Ensign, May 1985, p. 11.)

[JohnnyLingo]

Also from Elder McConkie's The Seven Deadly Heresies talk:

Originally Posted by Elder McConkie

Heresy seven: There are those who believe we must be perfect to gain salvation.

This is not really a great heresy, only a doctrinal misunderstanding that I mention here in order to help round out our discussion and to turn our attention from negative to positive things. If we keep two principles in mind we will thereby know that good and faithful members of the Church will be saved even though they are far from perfect in this life.

These two principles are

(1) that this life is the appointed time for men to prepare to meet God-this life is the day of our probation; and

(2) that the same spirit which possesses our bodies at the time we go out of this mortal life shall have power to possess our bodies in that eternal world.

What we are doing as members of the Church is charting a course leading to eternal life. There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law -strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity. The prophet taught that there are many things to be done, even beyond the grave, in working out our salvation.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I can see loving this. It's a gem in its own right. But strictly in an ironic sort of way. Is that how you mean it? In a sense this passage could not be more distasteful. BRM's outlook is so pat he displays outright immaturity here. But to make matters worse it's pat in a smug, and pitiless sort of way. He pretends to know things for certain no mortal can know, and about which only the most arrogant and insufferable mortals would claim knowledge or even speculate. While judging this man and his wife as if he were God Himself he shows not the slightest bit of compassion or humility. I love this because BRM renders a perfect charicature of poeple such as himeslf while being deadly earnest and not even realizing what a fire and brimstone breathing bafoon he makes himself out to be. It makes me wonder if he was addled when he wrote his infamous tome. How poignant is the irony here considering that he was one of the primary champions of the priesthood ban. I don't pretend to know if he'll be "saved" or burn in hell. But I do know this: From his writings he appears to have been a terrible human being.

I haven't been on the board for a while, but can't think of a better thread to chime in on than this one. SU has hit the nail square on the head. I remember spending an afternoon with BRM on my mission. I went away from that encounter thinking that he was, perhaps, the most insufferable person I had ever met in my life. The man was devoid of even the slightest trace of warmth or kindness. Boyd K. Packer also struck me the same way. If I'm going to pick someone to model my life on, those two guys are somewhere near the bottom of the list.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

The last time this issue was officially considered was a letter signed by Joseph Anderson, Secretary to the First Presidency, dated Feb. 28, 1968. Here's what the letter says in part:

"In answer to your inquiry in letter of February 15, 1968 addressed to President David O. McKay I am directed to tell you that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on the point of progression from one kingdom to another after the resurrection. Some of the brethren have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others of the brethren have taken an opposite view. But, as stated, the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on this point."

To this day, letter's on First Presidency Letterhead on this subject are very close to Anderson's wording.

So since the Church has not adopted an official position on this subject, Elder McConkie was expressing his view, nothing more (and nothing less).