Samuelson and the Honor Code

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

here is what i wrote - reread it again. goodness some people don't take time to read and become very sensitive...

i was making a general comment on how samuelson is caught b/w being an academic and a leader of a church with apparent displeasure toward freedom of expression. this is not a slam against byu or the quality of education at that school.

You're on a BYU board. I don't think I'm being overly sensitive. I'm just failing to agree with some of your basic assumptions. You're finding it frustrating talking to me lately because your basic assumptions about BYU are never challenged when you post on Ute sites, but I (and most BYU fans) don't agree with them. If you want to use these assumptions, that are anti-BYU or negative towards BYU, in a BYU forum then you have to understand that you might have to establish them first.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Yeah this academic freedom issue is a really tired one. I doubt if you have anything new to bring on the subject. Unless you think Samuelson is frustrated about not being able to talk about homosexuality, controversial aspects of LDS polygamy, or non-BOM jibing Mesoamerican anthropology then you probably don't have anything. I really doubt that frustration is what makes him appear lackluster to some BYU observers.

wow! again out of context. jay - dude, listen carefully. cecil has to be careful not to push issues b/c of the hierarchy of the church. that's what the comment mean. i think that is what makes him appear lackluster - you apparently disagree and that is fine.

now, tell me i have little-brother-itis. i love it when you say that.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

wow! again out of context. jay - dude, listen carefully. cecil has to be careful not to push issues b/c of the hierarchy of the church. that's what the comment mean. i think that is what makes him appear lackluster - you apparently disagree and that is fine.

now, tell me i have little-brother-itis. i love it when you say that.

I can buy

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

cecil has to be careful not to push issues b/c of the hierarchy of the church.

But I don't buy

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

it comes across as unimpressive b/c the church is afraid of academic impression beyond training young men and women to become adults of achievement in their professional fields.

I don't think this has anything to do with littlebrotheritis. Although you do seem to have a lot of time invested in following BYU matters. Maybe you just like both schools.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by jay santos

You're on a BYU board. I don't think I'm being overly sensitive. I'm just failing to agree with some of your basic assumptions. You're finding it frustrating talking to me lately because your basic assumptions about BYU are never challenged when you post on Ute sites, but I (and most BYU fans) don't agree with them. If you want to use these assumptions, that are anti-BYU or negative towards BYU, in a BYU forum then you have to understand that you might have to establish them first.

p.s. i don't post anywhere but here. how was my statement anti-byu or negative. it was merely throwing out an idea as to how samuelson could come across as lackluster.

p.s.s. i married a zoob, so my assumptions about byu are challended daily!

[OrangeUte]

i wish i could figure out how to use these smiley faces so you could see that i'm actually smiling at you and not sneering at you. your posts are quality - especially the stuff with numbers and stats.

[Insensitive PAP]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

here is what i wrote - reread it again. goodness some people don't take time to read and become very sensitive...

i was making a general comment on how samuelson is caught b/w being an academic and a leader of a church with apparent displeasure toward freedom of expression. this is not a slam against byu or the quality of education at that school.

Is there a more Socratic church than the LDS Church? What other Church has mounds and mounds of dissertations and discourse on where were we, why are we here, and where are we going? It's the very nature of the Church and its members to inquire. In fact, it's the central message of everything we do.

You are making assumptions about BYU that will fit your Ute paradigm of what BYU is supposed to represent, rather than what it actually does. The fact is, BYU educated students have things in common, but they are far from the lemmings Utes would like us to be.

To posit that our academic institution, its leadership, and its professors are uniformly bending their personal beliefs for the sake of pandering to a stodgy Quorum of the 12 is a weakly veiled insult to every person involved with the university.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by Insensitive PAP

Is there a more Socratic church than the LDS Church? What other Church has mounds and mounds of dissertations and discourse on where were we, why are we here, and where are we going? It's the very nature of the Church and its members to inquire. In fact, it's the central message of everything we do.

You are making assumptions about BYU that will fit your Ute paradigm of what BYU is supposed to represent, rather than what it actually does. The fact is, BYU educated students have things in common, but they are far from the lemmings Utes would like us to be.

To posit that our academic institution, its leadership, and its professors are uniformly bending their personal beliefs for the sake of pandering to a stodgy Quorum of the 12 is a weakly veiled insult to every person involved with the university.

wow! simma down! again, not what i said.

[Rickomatic]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

world's largest cocktail party only refers to the UF UGA game every year.
...

I am not going to worry about the rest of the posts. Just this. I have a question, isn't that the game that is play each year in Jacksonville Florida?

[OrangeUte]

Yes. the home team rotates every year, but it is always played in jacksonville.

[ute4ever]

I recall a quote being attributed to Elder Holland, that was something to the extent of, if BYU's athletic team members would live the gospel to its highest standards, they would field one of the most successful teams in every sport that they compete in.

Urban legend?

If true, it could be interpreted to mean success in the eyes of God, not the AP voters.