BYU ballplayer kicked out of school - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

PaloAltoCougar · 02-03-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Read the bishop's quote, "he didn't even come in for a calling."

Where can I read this? All I've seen are comments from the kid's dad and roommate. I've been under the impression the bishop hasn't commented. If he has, and that was the best he could offer for the EE's withdrawal, then I agree the bishop is out of line.

Archaea · 02-03-2008, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

Where can I read this? All I've seen are comments from the kid's dad and roommate. I've been under the impression the bishop hasn't commented. If he has, and that was the best he could offer for the EE's withdrawal, then I agree the bishop is out of line.

It was the dad quoting the bishop. From Trib article:

Quote:

"They said he didn't participate in the ward enough, hadn't been to church enough and hadn't gone in and asked for a calling," Kenneth Walton said. "All the stake president would say was, 'I hope you don't hurt your son by making a big issue out of this.' "

Quoting from memory, especially one as old as mine, sometimes causes insertions which aren't there. I especially like the veiled threat by Economics Professor and dick stake president James Kearl. Unfortunately, he appears to be right minded on economics but wrong headed on athletics.

http://fhss.byu.edu/econ/faculty/kearl/

Surfah · 02-03-2008, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

It was the dad quoting the bishop. From Trib article:

Quoting from memory, especially one as old as mine, sometimes causes insertions which aren't there. I especially like the veiled threat by Economics Professor and dick stake president James Kearl.

I got into it with on of Kearl's Econ TA's. I was in the lab working on a problem and got help from a TA who proceeded to workout the entire problem for me. So I turned in my homework. Picked up my assignment a week later and the problem the TA did for me was wrong. I was livid. I spotted the TA in the lab and went up to him and told him thanks for nothing. He told me, "Sorry. I didn't grade your paper." I couldn't believe that this was his response.

So I took it up with Kearl who sided with his TA and basically dismissed what I his TA had done and said as if he hires only competent and the best TAs so he wouldn't have done something like that.

I can completely see him siding with the Bishop without even investigating the issue himself here.

Archaea · 02-03-2008, 03:58 AM

I can also see that he's not loyal to BYU sports, here's where he got his undergrad:

Quote:

B.A., Mathematics and Economics, Utah State University, 1971

He thereafter went to MIT for economics.

So he's an Aggie with a hatred for BYU sports.

myboynoah · 02-03-2008, 04:14 AM

Let me play my brother's advocate.

The kids knows of the requirement to maintain an EE, just like every other student. Did the Bishop just spring this on him? None of us know the Bishop's side to this and probably never will. As Mike has pointed out many times, tithing funds subsidize tuition in a very significant way (would it be unreasonable to say that BYU students pay only 10% of the costs invovled?). We all know that supply does not meet demand for those wanting to go to BYU.

Then why should a kid, regardless of whether or not he/she is an athlete, be allowed to attend if he/she cannot maintain an EE? It's very simple and the easiest aspect of staying qualified to attend the university. Or is much of this just about how it appears to the outside world?

I have little sympathy for people who can't follow simple instructions. Kind of like those folks in Florida in 2000 who wanted to vote for Al Gore but ended up voting for Pat Buchanan.

I guess this puts me firmly in the mullah camp.

BYU71 · 02-03-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Let me play my brother's advocate.

The kids knows of the requirement to maintain an EE, just like every other student. Did the Bishop just spring this on him? None of us know the Bishop's side to this and probably never will. As Mike has pointed out many times, tithing funds subsidize tuition in a very significant way (would it be unreasonable to say that BYU students pay only 10% of the costs invovled?). We all know that supply does not meet demand for those wanting to go to BYU.

Then why should a kid, regardless of whether or not he/she is an athlete, be allowed to attend if he/she cannot maintain an EE? It's very simple and the easiest aspect of staying qualified to attend the university. Or is much of this just about how it appears to the outside world?

I have little sympathy for people who can't follow simple instructions. Kind of like those folks in Florida in 2000 who wanted to vote for Al Gore but ended up voting for Pat Buchanan.

I guess this puts me firmly in the mullah camp.

I hope you aren't a mullah or I would have to fall in that camp too. I support the Bishop's right to do what he did. I do not feel I have the right to attack him personally. He didn't molest a child after all.

I do feel I have the right to disagree though with what he did. I look at it as having a difference of opinion. If in fact this kid is attending 50% of his meetings I find it hard to believe all Bishops wouldn't give this kid a EE. If this is the case, then you can't say EE is a standard that all kids are held the same too.

Archaea · 02-03-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Let me play my brother's advocate.

The kids knows of the requirement to maintain an EE, just like every other student. Did the Bishop just spring this on him? None of us know the Bishop's side to this and probably never will. As Mike has pointed out many times, tithing funds subsidize tuition in a very significant way (would it be unreasonable to say that BYU students pay only 10% of the costs invovled?). We all know that supply does not meet demand for those wanting to go to BYU.

Then why should a kid, regardless of whether or not he/she is an athlete, be allowed to attend if he/she cannot maintain an EE? It's very simple and the easiest aspect of staying qualified to attend the university. Or is much of this just about how it appears to the outside world?

I have little sympathy for people who can't follow simple instructions. Kind of like those folks in Florida in 2000 who wanted to vote for Al Gore but ended up voting for Pat Buchanan.

I guess this puts me firmly in the mullah camp.

Can't you see the "anti-athlete" type seeing this as a power struggle? I can.

I can believe it wasn't a morality issue. And to pull it midsemester is obscene. You work on some type of probation. I've just seen some of those weird actions from BYU bishops, so the Drew story sounds very plausible to me. Only six times last semester? That still makes him active under Church standards. Why would the BYU bishop have that sort of power? It seems it should be decided upon by the home bishop not some rent-a-bishop from Springville Utah of mullah fame.
Wayne Childs (435) 865-6608 295 N 325th E,Kanarraville, UT 84742

Where is that? What is SAAS in Utah?

livecoug · 02-03-2008, 03:33 PM

Guys, listen, there is more to the story than just skipping church a few times. Seriously. There would be a bunch more students in that one ward kicked out of BYU at the same time. We would hear about that. If that was Wayne Childs position that every student must attend church x amount of times per month, then there is no way that just Ken Walton was the only guilty one. Think about it.

Archaea · 02-03-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livecoug

Guys, listen, there is more to the story than just skipping church a few times. Seriously. There would be a bunch more students in that one ward kicked out of BYU at the same time. We would hear about that. If that was Wayne Childs position that every student must attend church x amount of times per month, then there is no way that just Ken Walton was the only guilty one. Think about it.

What more could there be, if it's not an honor code issue? The Honor Code confirmed that, so it's not sex and drugs. If it's not those, then sparse BYU attendance is idiotic. There really can't be much to the story.

There are very few things which can dismiss a player. I know people in our culture wish to believe and to trust unfailingly in authority, but just look at the possibilities. There aren't many.

livecoug · 02-03-2008, 04:45 PM

I don't blindly trust the leaders. I know there are plenty of leaders in the church that are power hungry freaks. My point is, if it were just for missing church a few times, half his ward would be kicked out. If it were other HC related issues, the Bishop could just pull the EE and the honor code office wouldn't even have to be contacted.

02-03-2008, 04:14 AM	#5
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Let me play my brother's advocate. The kids knows of the requirement to maintain an EE, just like every other student. Did the Bishop just spring this on him? None of us know the Bishop's side to this and probably never will. As Mike has pointed out many times, tithing funds subsidize tuition in a very significant way (would it be unreasonable to say that BYU students pay only 10% of the costs invovled?). We all know that supply does not meet demand for those wanting to go to BYU. Then why should a kid, regardless of whether or not he/she is an athlete, be allowed to attend if he/she cannot maintain an EE? It's very simple and the easiest aspect of staying qualified to attend the university. Or is much of this just about how it appears to the outside world? I have little sympathy for people who can't follow simple instructions. Kind of like those folks in Florida in 2000 who wanted to vote for Al Gore but ended up voting for Pat Buchanan. I guess this puts me firmly in the mullah camp. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

02-03-2008, 03:33 PM	#8
livecoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,176	Guys, listen, there is more to the story than just skipping church a few times. Seriously. There would be a bunch more students in that one ward kicked out of BYU at the same time. We would hear about that. If that was Wayne Childs position that every student must attend church x amount of times per month, then there is no way that just Ken Walton was the only guilty one. Think about it.

02-03-2008, 04:45 PM	#10
livecoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,176	I don't blindly trust the leaders. I know there are plenty of leaders in the church that are power hungry freaks. My point is, if it were just for missing church a few times, half his ward would be kicked out. If it were other HC related issues, the Bishop could just pull the EE and the honor code office wouldn't even have to be contacted.