Happiness gay marriage vs straight - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 07-08-2008, 05:41 PM

A building block for the idea of gay sex in committed relationship being not against God's will is this idea that happiness for a gay man can only be found in a sexual relationship with gay partner. And God wouldn't deny happiness, so he must be for gay committed relationships.

What about the happiness, joy, and intimacy that comes in raising children, and the intimacy and joy that you have with your spouse in a life of creating and loving children.

Let's eliminate the possibility of adoption in this analysis.

1. Gay man marries gay man and enjoys committed, intimate, sexual relationship finding joy and happiness in that relationship.

2. Gay man marries woman and though the sex is not great, they carve out a relationship that works for them and find joy and happiness in their relationship and especially in creating a family and raising children.

#1 definitely has more potential for happiness?
#2 definitely has more potential for happiness?
Potential for happiness for both situations is similar?

jay santos · 07-08-2008, 05:54 PM

Question I raise is, many of you seem to be saying there's no way God is so cruel as to put someone on this earth denying them the happiness of a intimate relationship? => God sanctions gay marriage.

Alternate question, there's no way God is so cruel as to put someone on earth denying them the joy and happiness of creating and enjoying a posterity? => God must want gay men to marry and procreate with females.

jay santos · 07-08-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

And there the discussion loses all meaning and become a purely academic exercise without applicability. What is the gay man's wife is infertile or he has a too low sperm count?

But when you're making a macro level policy, you don't look at the one off outliers. Are you saying in looking at this, one should allow the idea of adoption for gay partners in this analysis? That opens a whole new can of worms.

marsupial · 07-08-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

2. Gay man marries woman and though the sex is not great, they carve out a relationship that works for them and find joy and happiness in their relationship and especially in creating a family and raising children.

This is a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

FarrahWaters · 07-08-2008, 06:13 PM

I think there are many gay men you attempt to have the family life you describe. They all seem to eventually get divorced and find a new life with a partner. How many do you think stay married?

I know of one woman specifically who is very unhappy in her marriage. Her therapist and friends are convinced that her husband is gay, and she is starting to believe them. He shows revulsion at her touch, and never wants to be intimate. He says he loves his children and does not want a divorce, he wants to stay together as a family. She wants someone who will desire her. What do you advise they do?

Brian · 07-08-2008, 06:16 PM

what about infertile heterosexual couples?

jay santos · 07-08-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

I think there are many gay men you attempt to have the family life you describe. They all seem to eventually get divorced and find a new life with a partner. How many do you think stay married?

I know of one woman specifically who is very unhappy in her marriage. Her therapist and friends are convinced that her husband is gay, and she is starting to believe them. He shows revulsion at her touch, and never wants to be intimate. He says he loves his children and does not want a divorce, he wants to stay together as a family. She wants someone who will desire her. What do you advise they do?

Don't know. I don't have the answers.

I think my answer is probably that they should stick it out. Marriage is not easy and God seems to intend it that way.

A marriage where sex is a problem and the man is looking to greener pastures is not unique to where the man is gay. Men generally seem to have a problem keeping their sex drives within the proper boundaries. Something like 60% of men commit adultery.

I don't think a lifetime of hot sex is a basic human right.

Indy Coug · 07-08-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Something like 60% of men commit adultery.

Link?

SoCalCoug · 07-08-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

A building block for the idea of gay sex in committed relationship being not against God's will is this idea that happiness for a gay man can only be found in a sexual relationship with gay partner. And God wouldn't deny happiness, so he must be for gay committed relationships.

What about the happiness, joy, and intimacy that comes in raising children, and the intimacy and joy that you have with your spouse in a life of creating and loving children.

Let's eliminate the possibility of adoption in this analysis.

1. Gay man marries gay man and enjoys committed, intimate, sexual relationship finding joy and happiness in that relationship.

2. Gay man marries woman and though the sex is not great, they carve out a relationship that works for them and find joy and happiness in their relationship and especially in creating a family and raising children.

#1 definitely has more potential for happiness?
#2 definitely has more potential for happiness?
Potential for happiness for both situations is similar?

# 2 is not a viable option, because it ignores the right of the wife to be in a committed, intimate, sexual relationship. In fact, I believe the church has retreated from counseling this as an option.

There are really only two viable options for LDS homosexuals: #1, and living a life of celibacy, with no hope for an intimate relationship (which happens to be a huge issue within the church).

It's the Adam and Eve situation - torn between two incompatible commandments - here it is the one to multiply and replenish the earth, in contrast to the one not to marry someone of the same sex.

In a world where adoption, in vitro fertilization and surrogate motherhood are all possible, the prohibition against homsexual marriage is losing its premise.

Indy Coug · 07-08-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

In a world where adoption, in vitro fertilization and surrogate motherhood are all possible, the prohibition against homsexual marriage is losing its premise.

And thus, the slippery slope has completed its descent.

07-08-2008, 06:16 PM	#6
Brian Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oak Ridge, TN Posts: 1,308	what about infertile heterosexual couples? __________________ e^(i * pi) + 1 = 0 5 great numbers in one little equation.

07-08-2008, 05:41 PM	#1
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Happiness gay marriage vs straight A building block for the idea of gay sex in committed relationship being not against God's will is this idea that happiness for a gay man can only be found in a sexual relationship with gay partner. And God wouldn't deny happiness, so he must be for gay committed relationships. What about the happiness, joy, and intimacy that comes in raising children, and the intimacy and joy that you have with your spouse in a life of creating and loving children. Let's eliminate the possibility of adoption in this analysis. 1. Gay man marries gay man and enjoys committed, intimate, sexual relationship finding joy and happiness in that relationship. 2. Gay man marries woman and though the sex is not great, they carve out a relationship that works for them and find joy and happiness in their relationship and especially in creating a family and raising children. #1 definitely has more potential for happiness? #2 definitely has more potential for happiness? Potential for happiness for both situations is similar?

07-08-2008, 05:54 PM	#2
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Question I raise is, many of you seem to be saying there's no way God is so cruel as to put someone on this earth denying them the happiness of a intimate relationship? => God sanctions gay marriage. Alternate question, there's no way God is so cruel as to put someone on earth denying them the joy and happiness of creating and enjoying a posterity? => God must want gay men to marry and procreate with females.

07-08-2008, 06:13 PM	#5
FarrahWaters Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,122	I think there are many gay men you attempt to have the family life you describe. They all seem to eventually get divorced and find a new life with a partner. How many do you think stay married? I know of one woman specifically who is very unhappy in her marriage. Her therapist and friends are convinced that her husband is gay, and she is starting to believe them. He shows revulsion at her touch, and never wants to be intimate. He says he loves his children and does not want a divorce, he wants to stay together as a family. She wants someone who will desire her. What do you advise they do?