Suicide and homosexuality - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

UtahDan · 09-23-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Come to think of it, I don't have any gay male friends. You might be onto something!

I don't actually know any gay people at the moment outside of extended family, none who are out of the closet anyway. I knew a lot in SLC and in DC.

Babs, the author of that quote was not a bad guy but he was a fountain of statements and opinions which the church wishes he had never uttered and which the church does not endorse. I don't know whether suicide is murder or not in any particular case, but I do believe in a merciful God. I think that is what most LDS would say.

MikeWaters · 09-23-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I don't actually know any gay people at the moment outside of extended family, none who are out of the closet anyway. I knew a lot in SLC and in DC.

Babs, the author of that quote was not a bad guy but he was a fountain of statements and opinions which the church wishes he had never uttered and which the church does not endorse. I don't know whether suicide is murder or not in any particular case, but I do believe in a merciful God. I think that is what most LDS would say.

Everytime I wish that we had more forceful, revelatory apostles who thundered "THUS SAITH THE LORD", I think of BRM, and I am glad we don't.

ERCougar · 09-23-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I don't actually know any gay people at the moment outside of extended family, none who are out of the closet anyway. I knew a lot in SLC and in DC.

Babs, the author of that quote was not a bad guy but he was a fountain of statements and opinions which the church wishes he had never uttered and which the church does not endorse. I don't know whether suicide is murder or not in any particular case, but I do believe in a merciful God. I think that is what most LDS would say.

Agreed. I forget that some people on here don't know the ins and outs of our history. The quote was highlighted as part of an analysis of how the church has dealed in the past with suicide (the quote was from 1958) and how things are changing, as well as current challenges. I honestly don't know how someone can come to such an insensitive place to where they say something like that, but I also was not in his shoes and I'll leave that one to him and God.

Tex · 09-23-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Agreed. I forget that some people on here don't know the ins and outs of our history. The quote was highlighted as part of an analysis of how the church has dealed in the past with suicide (the quote was from 1958) and how things are changing, as well as current challenges. I honestly don't know how someone can come to such an insensitive place to where they say something like that, but I also was not in his shoes and I'll leave that one to him and God.

I'm sure it was before he got to Stage IV.

MikeWaters · 09-23-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Agreed. I forget that some people on here don't know the ins and outs of our history. The quote was highlighted as part of an analysis of how the church has dealed in the past with suicide (the quote was from 1958) and how things are changing, as well as current challenges. I honestly don't know how someone can come to such an insensitive place to where they say something like that, but I also was not in his shoes and I'll leave that one to him and God.

they want to discourage suicide. Make it taboo.

PaloAltoCougar · 09-23-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Agreed. I forget that some people on here don't know the ins and outs of our history. The quote was highlighted as part of an analysis of how the church has dealed in the past with suicide (the quote was from 1958) and how things are changing, as well as current challenges. I honestly don't know how someone can come to such an insensitive place to where they say something like that, but I also was not in his shoes and I'll leave that one to him and God.

BRM had many fine qualities, but sensitivity was not his long suit. I am aware that GAs still talk about a stake conference visit by the McConkies, during which his wife passed out at the pulpit and collapsed to the floor. While others reacted quickly, rushing to her side, Elder McConkie literally stepped over his wife without pausing to check things out, assured the congregation along the lines of "Don't worry, she'll be fine," and immediately launched into his talk while others pulled his wife off of the podium. I suppose that says as much about Sister McConkie as it does about him; if I performed similarly, that talk would be my last.

Tex · 09-23-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

they want to discourage suicide.

A worthy goal, no?

Jeff Lebowski · 09-23-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

This has probably been posted here somewhere before, but I just came across this for the first and was floored...

Utah leads the nation in suicide rates among men 15-24 and 1/3 of these are tied to issues of homosexuality.

Wow.

Where did you read this? Do you have a link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

EDIT:
And later in the article, this gem from BRM:
"Suicide is murder, pure and simple, and murderers are damned. There is no more justification for self-murder than for the wilful destruction of another. There is a common and supposedly compassionate tendency on the part of many to reason that all who commit suicide must be mentally unbalanced and that therefore they are not accountable for their crimes…..But the great probability is that nearly all self-murderers–though they may be depressed an mentally ill–do in fact know right from wrong, the same as most killers do. No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

What a horrible statement. It boggles my mind that a man this heartless become an apostle.