How are people defending this???

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Only if the liberals you were describing were socialist and believed that the general public was too stupid to take care of themselves, in which case that would be fair. If you are applying that to the general liberal establishment within the US, then no- it would simply once again affirm your lack of understanding of the term "socialist" and a corresponding lack of insight into the reasonings of the liberal population.

What a crock.

I know what socialists are and you don't like that I don't use your definition of the word.

Perhaps you are one of those liberals of which I speak?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Talk about elitist and condescending. Ah the irony.

You defend Obama and his hyperbole, yet you jump all over me.

Who's the elitist now?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

What a crock.

I know what socialists are and you don't like that I don't use your definition of the word.

Perhaps you are one of those liberals of which I speak?

It isn't MY definition of the word. I don't know why you insist on fighting against Webster.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

You defend Obama and his hyperbole, yet you jump all over me.

Who's the elitist now?

Arguing and advocating a view doesn't make one elitist. Check with Webster.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

It isn't MY definition of the word. I don't know why you insist on fighting against Webster.

Isn't it true that socialists favor that the state run everything?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Arguing and advocating a view doesn't make one elitist. Check with Webster.

Fair enough.

But I can admit that I am elitist when I talk about someone like Obama. Can you admit that he is an elitist?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Isn't it true that socialists favor that the state run everything?

If by "run" you mean "own the means of production," then yes- which most emphatically is not what Obama believes, as you know.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Fair enough.

But I can admit that I am elitist when I talk about someone like Obama. Can you admit that he is an elitist?

Why would I admit he is an elitist when I don't believe him to be? And what do you mean when you talk about "someone like Obama?" Someone liberal? Someone who is a Democrat? Someone who is black? Someone who is male? What?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Why would I admit he is an elitist when I don't believe him to be? And what do you mean when you talk about "someone like Obama?" Someone liberal? Someone who is a Democrat? Someone who is black? Someone who is male? What?

I mean someone I believe is a far-left extremist who embraces Marxist ideas and panders to those like that. Someone who believes that conservatives are small minded, gun-clinging, religion-gulping idiots.

That's what I see in Obama. You disagree which is fine, but that doesn't mean I've got him wrong.

[ERCougar]

Wow...Cali turning to Webster's to defend the word "cling". Close your dictionary and listen to the connotation. It reflects a lack of choice, a lack of real thought, and a sense of desperation. We can argue back and forth but if you're honest with yourself, you know exactly what it connotes. If you happen to be one of the few who doesn't sense this, it's not really worth discussing, as it's a simple fact that many HAVE been offended by it. But truly--I hope Obama (and you and the rest of his supporters) continues to brush it off; we'll see how well that works for him.

Clinging to God is a very different thing from clinging to a religion. Clinging to God (or the iron rod, etc) is a personal choice, a personal spirituality, that is to be respected and admired. Clinging to a religion reflects a lack of personal commitment and a desperation to belong to a group. So, no, I don't think Obama intended the phrase as complimentary of small-town "folk" as he later claimed. To hammer the point home, he couches it in between two other similar coping mechanisms (in his mind)--guns and xenophobia.

Or maybe he finds these qualities endearing as well. Wow...maybe he isn't just another Ted Kennedy liberal.