Blacks, apologies, and reparations

[exUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What do you think of the govt. apologizing to the American citizens of Japanese ancestry who were put in concentration camps, and lost their homes and land, during WWII?

Or the govt. conducting damaging scientific experiments that harmed the participants (who did not give informed consent) and neighboring people?

Of all people, I would think that you Tex would believe in responsibility for your actions.

used in reparations. My family or ancestors didn't own slaves. Why charge me for someone elses misdeeds? Plus half the country was against slavery. Make they pay as well?

The compensation they have been given to date is called affirmative action. That should be enough.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you feel no personal responsibility, but might support an apology.

how is this different than slavery?

Apology? Affirmative Action is way better than any apology.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by exUte

Apology? Affirmative Action is way better than any apology.

So you support affirmative action. Good to know.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What do you think of the govt. apologizing to the American citizens of Japanese ancestry who were put in concentration camps, and lost their homes and land, during WWII?

Or the govt. conducting damaging scientific experiments that harmed the participants (who did not give informed consent) and neighboring people?

Those people are still living.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Those people are still living.

certainly not all of them.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you feel no personal responsibility, but might support an apology.

how is this different than slavery?

Because some of those people are still alive. Their real and tangible loss trumps my lack of personal culpability.

[SeattleUte]

Tex, you're missing the whole point. This isn't hard, and I know you're a very bright man.

A religion is just an eleemosynary institution (at best) if you take away the doctrine and claim to some kind of divine imprimitur or authority. Thus, it's important that the Mormon church formally repudiate the priesthood ban as not having arisen from the purported divine/doctrine realm. For me, it's as simple as that. Until the Mormon church formally repudiates the priesthood ban it should lack any moral authority. In some respects, because the priesthood ban was based upon a story about blacks being descendants of Cain who were less valiant in the pre-existence, this is more critical than, say, Catholic apologies for in some instances appeasing Nazis during the holocaust. No one ever had reason to believe the Catholic Church appeased Nazis believing it was part of God's divine plan. Rather this happened because of in many respects understandable human frailty.

The Mormon Church needs to repudiate the priesthood ban not only because it's racism (we have discussed the reasons why ad nauseum). It's doctrinal underpinnings depend upon crude creationist dogma. Science has long shown that Creationism is mythology (exute told me all I needed to know about him when he argued against gay marriage saying that if Adam and Eve were gay none of us would be here). Ergo, a story that all blacks descended from Cain is demonstrably bullshit. The LDS Church needs to formally repudiate any such belief.

Of course, an "apology" would follow in the ordinary course. But 99.999% of blacks haven't cared and really wouldn't care and never will care. Among the people the LDS Church should apologize to are those such as myself who bear the shame of having taught and enforced the loathsome priesthood ban while young men, hardly adults, on their missions.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

Because some of those people are still alive. Their real and tangible loss trumps my lack of personal culpability.

But surely you believe that being alive is not a requirement to be compensated for wrongs committed against you?

I imagine if a doctor accidentally slipped you cyanide, your heirs would be seeking compensation in behalf of you, even though you are dead.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Tex, you're missing the whole point. This isn't hard, and I know you're a very bright man.

A religion is just an eleemosynary institution (at best) blahblahblah

Wow, impressive hijack.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Tex, you're missing the whole point. This isn't hard, and I know you're a very bright man.

A religion is just an eleemosynary institution (at best) if you take away the doctrine and claim to some kind of divine imprimitur or authority. Thus, it's important that the Mormon church formally repudiate the priesthood ban as not having arisen from the purported divine/doctrine realm. For me, it's as simple as that. Until the Mormon church formally repudiates the priesthood ban it should lack any moral authority. In some respects, because the priesthood ban was based upon a story about blacks being descendants of Cain who were less valiant in the pre-existence, this is more critical than, say, Catholic apologies for in some instances appeasing Nazis during the holocaust. No one ever had reason to believe the Catholic Church appeased Nazis believing it was part of God's divine plan. Rather this happened because of in many respects understandable human frailty.

The Mormon Church needs to repudiate the priesthood ban not only because it's racism (we have discussed the reasons why ad nauseum). It's doctrinal underpinnings depend upon crude creationist dogma. Science has long shown that Creationism is mythology (exute told me all I needed to know about him when he argued against gay marriage saying that if Adam and Eve were gay none of us would be here). Ergo, a story that all blacks descended from Cain is demonstrably bullshit. The LDS Church needs to formally repudiate any such belief.

Of course, an "apology" would follow in the ordinary course. But 99.999% of blacks haven't cared and really wouldn't care and never will care. Among the people the LDS Church should apologize to are those such as myself who bear the shame of having taught and enforced the loathsome priesthood ban while young men, hardly adults, on their missions.

I really wasn't trying to hijack Tex's thread. I confess to not having even skimmed his post when I wrote this. I apologize. But the post stands.