Church makes gays and their children apostates

[ute4ever]

Post Script.

You may be surprised to learn that seven years ago, while living in California, I voted no on Prop 8. At the time, I had many of the same feelings and emotions that you have been displaying here. At the time, I felt it was cruel and unChristlike for so many people who were apparently born with their attraction, to be denied the very basic human need of love. Additionally, having lived in SoCal for the previous 4+ years, I met, befriended, and loved dozens of LGBT individuals, some of whom were amongst the kindest people I knew. My no vote was a very emphatic NO!!! My heart broke at the thought of a bunch of bigot church members in Utah, living inside of their bubble, in a place where "you queer" was still a common insult, donating money and getting on their telephones to meddle in the fate of these people's happiness, people who they didn't know and seemingly had no desire to.

What caused me to ultimately change my view, and it was not an overnight process, was precisely what D&C 8-9 teaches: to ask in faith. My initial tone of "why do You hate gay people?" was never responded to. Instead, over time, as I humbled myself, remembered that loving God was higher than loving my neighbor, my tone became more of, "please just help me to understand why." It was my experience that my flashes of insight started to come, but they were still far and between, because my overall mindset was still, "I don't agree with this, I just want to know why." My overall purpose in learning why was still so once I knew why, I could continue to sulk about it.

Finally, as I continued to humble myself more, and strengthened my testimony in the scriptures and the words of the prophets, as my majority mindset shifted into wanting to know the will of the Father and agreeing to follow His wisdom, I finally began understanding why He will not yield on this issue.

I also want to testify that since then, as I've experienced the correct way to receive answers from His source, and continued to accept and follow them, the process of unlocking the mysteries of the kingdom and receiving further understanding on so many gospel issues, has become more clear.

I acknowledge that as I defend the brethren and attempt to correct others, I don't speak with the cozy marshmallows and butterflies that you receive from Elder Hales. Joseph Smith was bold and right to the point, and I suppose that's why his own "friends" tarred and feathered him. But he never failed to get his point across.

Ciao.

[MikeWaters]

How do you feel about adultery? I assume you oppose it. Do you think it should be illegal?

I'm trying to imagine Jesus appearing and telling the Q12 not to bless the infant children because of the hassle it will cause with creating a child of record in the MLS databases and how they might be invited to attend primary as a result.

That's what I would like to ask the Brethren (and the Sistren if they were involved, presumably they were not). Do you want these children attending primary? Because you seemed to imply that you don't.

That would go a long ways to clarifying the situation.

[MikeWaters]

Btw, I'm not surprised. Paul went from killing Christians to leading Christians. So you were one way on an issue, now you are another way.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Btw, I'm not surprised. Paul went from killing Christians to leading Christians. So you were one way on an issue, now you are another way.

Now he can go to stamp out children who have a gay parent.

His mode of expression is ineffective.

I remember Monson famously using the cake example. Asking a missionary who wants cake and then dumping cake in the lap of a willing missionary. Afterward asking again and presenting in with a nice slice on a china plate.

Ute is the dumping of the gospel on the laps of people.

Prop 8. How did that work out for the Church? Blew money and capital only to lose everything.

Now the Church is doubling down and will lose more and gain nothing.

In short, with Ute4ever as a defender of the Church, it will never need any detractors as he does their work for them.

[MikeWaters]

On Wednesday, Dehlin, the excommunicated Mormon who divulged the "Handbook 1" changes to the media last week, claimed he had reports that the LDS "Presidency of the Seventy" sent out a memo to regional leaders, saying that "there will be additional clarification on these changes from the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve [Apostles] in the coming days."

When asked for confirmation, LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins "declined to comment."

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/fait...ict-on-gays-is

It will be interesting to see how far this is going to be rolled back. My guess is that it will not be very far at all. Adding in discretion for the children of divorced parents is all. I do hope that they do not ban blessings.

[Levin]

It will be interesting what the "clarification" will be. Unless it's a wholesale roll back, I don't see it getting any better. "If your dad and mom are divorced and daddy lives with his boyfriend and you live with your mom, THEN you can still get baptized. But if you live with your dad every other weekend, and on Wednesdays, then you cannot get baptized." Etc. More line drawing will just appear more arbitrary and capricious.

And we'll know that whatever "clarification" there is will have the imprimatur of the First Presidency and full Quorum of the 12. This has been too big of a meteor strike not to get their full attention and agreement. So whatever comes down the pike will have the approval of Uchtdorf and Holland, our twin hopes for reason and judgment and wisdom and generosity in this matter.

I'm nervous.

[Levin]

The "clarification" that is coming also shows that it's still amateur hour at the COB. The incoherent and disastrous PR statement re the scouting change: "we're on vacation and this is contrary to our doctrine anyway." And then how this was exposed and it's put into a manual only for SP's and Bishops when it affects the whole Church to its core.

I love President Monson, but this has been my frustration with him as President: he doesn't seem to be talking to us TODAY. Any of his talks could have been from the 1880s, 1920s, 1960s, or 1990s. They teach wonderful principles, but they are at a level of generality that is not rooted in specific issues the membership and Church as a whole are facing. It is something I really appreciated about President Hinckley -- he would talk to us about issues we were facing. I remember his talk, "What are people asking about us?" and then he gave specific answers to the questions. Something like that from TSM would be appreciated.

[Levin]

Why in the hell is Dehlin releasing news about the Church? Meaning, that's fully within Dehlin's right to do that. But why in the hell isn't the CHURCH speaking for itself? Why doesn't the Church get out in front of these things instead of always being caught behind the 8 ball. Instead, national newspapers have to quote people like Dehlin.

Amateur hour.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mepage%2Fstory

[ChinoCoug]

Dehlin is an attention whore.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

Dehlin is an attention whore.

That's why the Church should get some professionals so that he doesn't get to lead on all these issues. It's ridiculous that he's the only source of information and the Church's PR is "no comment"