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Old 07-14-2008, 09:36 PM   #41
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Dang I was so sure we had made some progress, you and I. So why then? You said earlier you thought it was to protect the name of the church. Maybe you can elaborate on that. I still don't know what sin this guy committed, other than tackiness and bad taste.
It's not really that complicated. The guy used the name of the church and one of its most iconic activities to market a calendar that by association portrayed both the church its missionary force in a questionable light, to put it politely. Quite simply, the church didn't want to be associated with it.

That, I imagine, is what landed him a disciplinary council. His belligerence about it is possibly what landed him the judgment. Notice that other councils convened on other participants chose to not take any action.

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While I have no idea what reason it would be, I'm guessing that the calendar is only a small part of it and this guy isn't about to fess up to the real reason, as that would not garner sympathy for him.
While certainly possible (and I don't rule it out), it moves us from reasonable speculation to wild speculation, so I don't see much point in discussing it.
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:43 PM   #42
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It's not really that complicated. The guy used the name of the church and one of its most iconic activities to market a calendar that by association portrayed both the church its missionary force in a questionable light, to put it politely. Quite simply, the church didn't want to be associated with it.

That, I imagine, is what landed him a disciplinary council. His belligerence about it is possibly what landed him the judgment. Notice that other councils convened on other participants chose to not take any action.



While certainly possible (and I don't rule it out), it moves us from reasonable speculation to wild speculation, so I don't see much point in discussing it.
I don't really care that they exed him. I do wonder what is the questionable light he put the church in. I can see how bare chested men in a calendar might put the
FLDS in questionable light, but only an idiot would think ill of the church seeing the calendar. Do you think any sane person thought the calendar was church sanctioned?
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:36 PM   #43
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I could care less if he got ex'd or not, but if someone chooses to believe that it was just solely for printing this calendar then you're dumber than shit and naive as all get out.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:39 PM   #44
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While certainly possible (and I don't rule it out), it moves us from reasonable speculation to wild speculation, so I don't see much point in discussing it.
That is a good point. No need to take speculation that far, though of the few folks that I personally know who have been excommunicated, only one is willing to admit that he put himself into that predicament and he doesn't discuss it with any. The others gladly share their sob story of the mean old Mormon Church and how it ruined their lives without telling the entire story.

I freely admit that I was speculating, though I'd rather call it an educated guess.
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:46 AM   #45
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With men, sexuality is always punished severely. Where you can see half naked women in many mainstream movies, seeing mens privates almost never happens. In some ways society comes down harder on male deviance.

Myself, I could not care less about this calendar.

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Old 07-15-2008, 01:20 AM   #46
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He wasn't ex'ed for publishing the calander, but was ex'ed for refusing to stop printing the calendar. I wouldn't be surprised if, after being inactive for 6 years, he admitted to not keeping the WofW or the law of chastity.

But if you think high councils go around ex'ing young Mormon men for breaking the WofW or the law of chastity, you are dumber than shit and naive as all get out.
You actually don't know why he was REALLY ex'd, even though you've already claimed otherwise.

Where did I say that High Councils go around ex'ing Men for breaking the WOW or Law of Chastity?

In a few years when you've become the first Church member to be ex'd for being a fuckhead be sure to print it here. Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:12 AM   #47
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...
In a few years when you've become the first Church member to be ex'd for being a fuckhead be sure to print it here. Thanks in advance.
That's brilliant. Example #50 of why Rocky should stay out of the non-Sports sections of CG.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:21 AM   #48
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That's brilliant. Example #50 of why Rocky should stay out of the non-Sports sections of CG.
Hey if you like Adam's poop on your pecker by all means.

But I do agree...my prose...It is brilliant actually.

Thanks for noticing.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:15 PM   #49
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Trivializing it as a "branding infraction" in light of the fiercely divisive topic of homosexuality in modern American society is hopelessly myopic. Surely you cannot be blind to the political overtones here. Do you think this calendar would've seen the light of a printing press had it NOT been about LDS missionaries? That very thing was what distinguished it from other similar calendars.

And let's not pretend like Hardy was some bishop-in-waiting whose innocent side business got caught up in the nets of a bunch of bigoted, overbearing high priests. The attitude of the accused has a lot to do with how these councils deliberate, and I'm guessing his strident, unrepentant, go-ahead-I-dare-you tone had something to do with it too.

By the way, I agree I don't think it was the most wonderful move from a PR perspective, but if it allows the church to fully divest itself when Hardy produces his next calendar (or who knows ... maybe a missionary porn video is next), it may have been worth it.



Perhaps my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning today, but I'm having a hard time believing you're serious.
Reality check: there is a HUGE difference between guys with shirts off and a porn video. We talked about this at work and every person had a similar opinion: "what's so bad about that?" (including some very conservative LDS). I doubt they would say the same thing about a porn video.

Who brought the homosexual debate into this? What in the world does this have to do with homosexuality? Based on the reaction of the nurseshere, there will be plenty of women buying this calendar.

I agree with you that Hardy was no saint. I imagine there were other issues involved; he even alludes to this in the article. If this was just to protect the name of the church, it backfired--they're looking kind of silly.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:40 PM   #50
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Reality check: there is a HUGE difference between guys with shirts off and a porn video. We talked about this at work and every person had a similar opinion: "what's so bad about that?" (including some very conservative LDS). I doubt they would say the same thing about a porn video.

Who brought the homosexual debate into this? What in the world does this have to do with homosexuality? Based on the reaction of the nurseshere, there will be plenty of women buying this calendar.

I agree with you that Hardy was no saint. I imagine there were other issues involved; he even alludes to this in the article. If this was just to protect the name of the church, it backfired--they're looking kind of silly.
Most of the people I have talked to have considered it in the range of funny to really stupid. None, members, inactive or active or non-members saw it as any thing embarassing to the church. I should note the number I have talked too is not a huge sample. It isn't something on the tip of everyones tongue.

I do think most of the members, inactive or active would say the guy is in big trouble though if they heard he defied something he was told to do. From an orthodox point of view, you just don't defy the Lords chosen. For the inactive who may not be a strong believer, even they know you don't fight the organizations leaders and expect to stay in the organization.

For the inactives, I just don't understand the quest to "educate" or change the organization. The leaders will always be primarily the most conservative in the organization.
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