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Old 07-08-2008, 01:11 AM   #21
Archaea
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
Tell me how thousands if not millions of cattle on federal land are good for the land.

I would like to hear this explanation.
General hyperbole to the rescue.

I'll give a you a thumbnail sketch of the issue. In the west at least and I cannot speak for the east or midwest, BLM managed land is usually the most arid, least useful land. In our cities, we often trade any good land of BLM for not so good land of private or municipal ownership.

A Rancher will often blend BLM with other land to graze his cattle. But a good rancher does know when to rest the land and when to rotate just as good farmers know good resource management.

Ranchers pay taxes on permitted land. The land if not used by ranchers would fall in disrepair.

You try to make horrific an issue which you know not, Mike. Or if you do, then shame on you for misrepresenting it. Ranchers are among the most respectful land managers, and they are fighting a battle which must be fought unless we wish to be entirely reliant upon foreign beef.

If you believe for any reason that over-grazing is the norm then you're believing the bullshit spin of environmentalist, not the real persons who are there and who can see it.

Again in other regions the issues may be different, but I'd be more than happy to show you the "idyllic" Nevada BLM land which you believe ranchers are raping. You're in for a surprise.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
Tell me how thousands if not millions of cattle on federal land are good for the land.

I would like to hear this explanation.
Without their grazing, the fire hazard is increased.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:23 AM   #23
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The land, without millions of cattle, would fall into disrepair? Was it in disrepair before the white man came?

That's really a new one. I've never heard that cattle are important to prevent fires. Do we have a source for that one?
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
The land, without millions of cattle, would fall into disrepair? Was it in disrepair before the white man came?

That's really a new one. I've never heard that cattle are important to prevent fires. Do we have a source for that one?
My source is my departed grandpa who was a cattleman. He cared about the land, as it was what allowed him to graze his cattle in order to make a living.

I'll take his word for it.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:30 AM   #25
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Ranchers have sought to stymie the reintroduction of the grizzly bear, the gray wolf, the Mexican wolf, and any other predator of the cow that helped balance the West's ecosystem before cowpies littered the entirety of the West. These efforts alone (see Idaho's current plan to eliminate as many gray wolves as possible in response to the ranchers' demands) undermine any argument that cattle ranchers are interested in improving and protecting the lands and ecosystems of the West.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:34 AM   #26
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Cattle ranching in the arid west (Archaea's "wastelands," my Edens) has

(1) degraded water quality as any Scout worth his weight in water-purifying tablets knows

(2) eroded the soil horribly

(3) introduced invasive plants

(4) endangered countelss native plants and animals (and blocked or stymied, as noted above, all efforts to reintroduce the endangered animals).

It is an incredibly ineffecient use of our public lands, and one that amounts to no more than welfare ranching. It should be grouped, and is, with our welfare corn farming in Iowa. But there's something worse: the Iowa farmers own their lands; the ranchers are doing it on yours and mine.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:38 AM   #27
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Here's a great collection of essays from authors with various backgrounds (economists, scientists, conservationists). It's called: "Welfare Ranching: The Subsidized Destruction of the American West." And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.amazon.com/Welfare-Ranchi.../dp/1559639431
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:14 AM   #28
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They should sell the slaughtered mustangs to Polynesians and Mongolians. They would make good use out of them.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:48 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levin View Post
Cattle ranching in the arid west (Archaea's "wastelands," my Edens) has

(1) degraded water quality as any Scout worth his weight in water-purifying tablets knows

(2) eroded the soil horribly

(3) introduced invasive plants

(4) endangered countelss native plants and animals (and blocked or stymied, as noted above, all efforts to reintroduce the endangered animals).

It is an incredibly ineffecient use of our public lands, and one that amounts to no more than welfare ranching. It should be grouped, and is, with our welfare corn farming in Iowa. But there's something worse: the Iowa farmers own their lands; the ranchers are doing it on yours and mine.
Wahhhhh....my pussie hurts...they introduced invasive plants and Butch Otter wants to shoot the gray wolf.....

I like a few things in life...big knockers and big steaks are amongst the top two..er um three!
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levin View Post
Ranchers have sought to stymie the reintroduction of the grizzly bear, the gray wolf, the Mexican wolf, and any other predator of the cow that helped balance the West's ecosystem before cowpies littered the entirety of the West. These efforts alone (see Idaho's current plan to eliminate as many gray wolves as possible in response to the ranchers' demands) undermine any argument that cattle ranchers are interested in improving and protecting the lands and ecosystems of the West.
Opposition to wolves = contempt for the land? Interesting. Grampa was a cattle rancher in central Idaho and he'd beg to differ. Actually, he'd probably just kick your ass.
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