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View Poll Results: Fair that tax dollars subsidize Kobe's pay while U.S. youth die in war for peanuts?
yes, it's the American way 3 15.79%
no, it's sickening 16 84.21%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2008, 07:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
It is just one example of your shoddy research.

If you cant even get that right, why should your other assertions be trusted.

Please provide a link that shows how the Staples Center was financed.

I see in the other thread that 8Ball provided another example of a privately funded stadium.

Again, you need to go back to the drawing board and talk about the real issue....your racism disapproved of NBA (and other pro sports) culture, therefore you are happy to see these people leave town. In your mind, they contribute nothing to the community.

Are you stating public financing is not involved in sports arenas? That tax benefits are not given?

If the NBA could build stadiums without any tax concessions or public financing, then I could favor it, but if you're suggesting that the NBA has not profited at the taxpayer expense, then you have revealed your bias.
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
and government pays youth peanuts to get ripped apart in Iraq and Afghanistan?
It's a market situation. It is relativaly easy to get youth to get ripped apart in Iraq, and not so easy to get somebody that can a fill basketball arena. Thus they don't have to pay soldiers much. In fact the army gives very small inlistment and re-up bonuses for fighting soldiers compared to techies. Our society puts a higher value on the sports hero then we do for the real hero.

I am against any kind of government subsidies for sports, or any other kind of business. But I am in a very small minority on this point.
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:25 PM   #13
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Again, you need to go back to the drawing board and talk about the real issue....your racism disapproved of NBA (and other pro sports) culture, therefore you are happy to see these people leave town. In your mind, they contribute nothing to the community.
Look who's the racist. You are, assuming basketball is synonymous black culture. You should be ashemed, you ugly, racist, piece of shit (nobody calls me racist).

You're as ignorant of the meaning of the word racism as capitalism. I doubt you really have ever thought much about the meaning of the word racism or you wouldn't cheapen it this way. You wouldn't expose your own latent racism by suggesting blacks are only all about, are coextensive with, the NBA. I'm a racist because I'd rather put public money into schools than pay pro athletes tens of millions of dollars a year and enable owners to realize hundreds of millions of dollars in capital gains as they can't turn a profit? I dare say there are millions of blacks who feel the same way I do, though this may come as a surprise to a racist such as yourself. My fair city voted 67 percent against public funding for Key Arena two years ago, and there were many thousands of blacks who voted that way.

I really have no problem with the players, who are often, particularly in football, among the victims. It's the owners and the shallow, gullibe public and their crappy values I condemn. You're exhibit A.

You seem like kind of a dim bulb, but let me see if you get this concept. If the whole edifice is funded with public money, if Kobe's opponents on the court and players bidding up salaries get public money, doesn't that make him a beneficiary of taxpayer largesse regardless of Staples' financing details?
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:31 PM   #14
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Are you stating public financing is not involved in sports arenas? That tax benefits are not given?

If the NBA could build stadiums without any tax concessions or public financing, then I could favor it, but if you're suggesting that the NBA has not profited at the taxpayer expense, then you have revealed your bias.
I have not stated that at all. If you have read both threads, I stated very early on that SU needed to make an example of a player that plays in a subsidized building. SU not only incorrectly inflated Kobe's salary, but didnt even have his facts straight.

Read his premise. It is incorrect.

Kobe's salary is not paid by our tax dollars.

If you are now changing the parameters of the poll, then re-state and give me a fair chance to weigh in.

You voted in this poll. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how:

1. Kobe is making 30M
2. His salary is paid by tax dollars.

Or do you simply vote without thinking?
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:49 PM   #15
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Look who's the racist. You are, assuming basketball is synonymous black culture. You should be ashemed, you ugly, racist, piece of shit (nobody calls me racist).

You're as ignorant of the meaning of the word racism as capitalism. I doubt you really have ever thought much about the meaning of the word racism or you wouldn't cheapen it this way. You wouldn't expose your own latent racism by suggesting blacks are only all about, are coextensive with, the NBA. I'm a racist because I'd rather put public money into schools than pay pro athletes tens of millions of dollars a year and enable owners to realize hundreds of millions of dollars in capital gains as they can't turn a profit? I dare say there are millions of blacks who feel the same way I do, though this may come as a surprise to a racist such as yourself. My fair city voted 67 percent against public funding for Key Arena two years ago, and there were many thousands of blacks who voted that way.

I really have no problem with the players, who are often, particularly in football, among the victims. It's the owners and the shallow, gullibe public and their crappy values I condemn. You're exhibit A.

You seem like kind of a dim bulb, but let me see if you get this concept. If the whole edifice is funded with public money, if Kobe's opponents on the court and players bidding up salaries get public money, doesn't that make him a beneficiary of taxpayer largesse regardless of Staples' financing details?
A few things about your diatribe....

1. I never said anything about blacks. In this entire discussion, you are the first to name blacks. Perhaps it is your latent racism coming to the surface? It would not surprise me, but many of your posts have had racist underpinnings to them. I guess for you it sucks to get called out on it.

2. This thread was a discussion of public v private financing. You are the one who has shifted the tone.

Once you started getting your butt kicked on the facts, you started to back peddle. First you punked out by saying, "Well, hey, maybe Kobe doesnt make 30M and maybe the Lakers are a bad example....but you still get my point..." You fail to admit that you have no real source for your entire thread (other than that random blurb). Very stubborn and not intellectually honest, quite frankly. A simple..."My bad, I screwed up my facts" would go a long way.

Next, 8Ball chimes in with yet another example of a privately financed stadium, not necessarily to contradict you, but to add to the conversation... you have no response for that, either. Interestingly, even as of right now, you have yet to cite a single example of the subsidized stadia to which you continually refer. We have named 2 to the contrary.

Finally, when your thread is revealed to be a house of cards, you stop the back peddling and change the topic entirely...."Oh, yeah....well what do fans of the NBA contribute to society?....."

Exactly who are these fans that you are referring to that are non-contributors? What race are they? Are they rich white season ticket holders? Or are they the Joe punchclocks....white, black, latino....that you find to be a drag on civic progress?

I think this is the first time you and I have gone the rounds on this board and quite frankly, it wasnt even that hard. Maybe because it was a sports category, which would be like competing against Hellen Keller in a game of darts. If you want to go the rounds, be more prepared. Breaking down by the second or third page of the thread and getting angry is rank amateur. You blow your wad too quickly. SeattleUte. I am sure your wife would agree.

Stick to making things up about religion. You are much more believable in that category.
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
I have not stated that at all. If you have read both threads, I stated very early on that SU needed to make an example of a player that plays in a subsidized building. SU not only incorrectly inflated Kobe's salary, but didnt even have his facts straight.

Read his premise. It is incorrect.

Kobe's salary is not paid by our tax dollars.

If you are now changing the parameters of the poll, then re-state and give me a fair chance to weigh in.

You voted in this poll. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how:

1. Kobe is making 30M
2. His salary is paid by tax dollars.

Or do you simply vote without thinking?
If Kobe had no teams to play and no teams existed to visit Staples or no other teams could afford to pay players anything comparable to Kobe's pay because all teams existed in a pure "capitalist" system and had to make a bottom line like most of us do, do you think Kobe would make $21 million or whatever his salary is? They all feed from the same trough.

In any event, here are about 250,000 google hits about public financing of Staples. I doubt your office building was financied with municipal bonds uless you work at Staples or the airport.

http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
A few things about your diatribe....

1. I never said anything about blacks. In this entire discussion, you are the first to name blacks. Perhaps it is your latent racism coming to the surface? It would not surprise me, but many of your posts have had racist underpinnings to them. I guess for you it sucks to get called out on it.

2. This thread was a discussion of public v private financing. You are the one who has shifted the tone.

Once you started getting your butt kicked on the facts, you started to back peddle. First you punked out by saying, "Well, hey, maybe Kobe doesnt make 30M and maybe the Lakers are a bad example....but you still get my point..." You fail to admit that you have no real source for your entire thread (other than that random blurb). Very stubborn and not intellectually honest, quite frankly. A simple..."My bad, I screwed up my facts" would go a long way.

Next, 8Ball chimes in with yet another example of a privately financed stadium, not necessarily to contradict you, but to add to the conversation... you have no response for that, either. Interestingly, even as of right now, you have yet to cite a single example of the subsidized stadia to which you continually refer. We have named 2 to the contrary.

Finally, when your thread is revealed to be a house of cards, you stop the back peddling and change the topic entirely...."Oh, yeah....well what do fans of the NBA contribute to society?....."

Exactly who are these fans that you are referring to that are non-contributors? What race are they? Are they rich white season ticket holders? Or are they the Joe punchclocks....white, black, latino....that you find to be a drag on civic progress?

I think this is the first time you and I have gone the rounds on this board and quite frankly, it wasnt even that hard. Maybe because it was a sports category, which would be like competing against Hellen Keller in a game of darts. If you want to go the rounds, be more prepared. Breaking down by the second or third page of the thread and getting angry is rank amateur. You blow your wad too quickly. SeattleUte. I am sure your wife would agree.

Stick to making things up about religion. You are much more believable in that category.
Clearly you don't know what the word "racist" means. You were the first to use it. You were the one who said opposition to public financing of NBA arenas (which is why the Sonics left Seattle, BTW, because a vast majority of Seattle residents feel just like I do) means you're racist. Ergo, your point must have been if you oppose public financing for NBA arenas you are against people not of your race, presumably blacks. Of course you meant black since we are talking about the NBA. How many Asian or Hispanic NBA players are there?

Have you ever been to an NBA game? I don't see a lot of black fans there. I see mostly white high rollers on expense accounts. Who gets hurt most when there is less funding for public schools? The poor do, and they are disproportionately black. It's perverse you turn this discussion into if your're against subsidizing owners (most of whom are overgrown kids) and multi-millionaire pro athlests, you're against minorities.

If you think I was angry you're mistaken. But I don't take being called racist lightly, especially when in doing so the accuser engages in a classic form of racism himself. If you call someone a racist you'd better have the goods on them, because I think those should always be fighing words. If you think it's no big deal, you need to reflect.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
If Kobe had no teams to play and no teams existed to visit Staples or no other teams could afford to pay players anything comparable to Kobe's pay because all teams existed in a pure "capitalist" system and had to make a bottom line like most of us do, do you think Kobe would make $21 million or whatever his salary is? They all feed from the same trough.

In any event, here are about 250,000 google hits about public financing of Staples. I doubt your office building was financied with municipal bonds uless you work at Staples or the airport.

http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search
Your first link references the munis, which were never at issue. You yourself said munis are financing, not subsidy. Or are you changing your tune?

The second, third, etc....links are all about development in the AREA around Staples.....the neighborhood. LOL.

You missed the board entirely, Helen Keller.

If you assertion is true and you really beleive that anyone who works in a building financed by munis is being paid by tax dollars, then I guess you, me, and everyone else is paid by the state. At that point, I am not sure what the relevance is of singling out NBA players. Why not actors? Lawyers? Doctors? everyone is guilty, I guess. Good point.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:17 PM   #19
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Clearly you don't know what the word "racist" means. You were the first to use it. You were the one who said opposition to public financing of NBA arenas (which is why the Sonics left Seattle, BTW, because a vast majority of Seattle residents feel just like I do) means you're racist. Ergo, your point must have been if you oppose public financing for NBA arenas you are against people not of your race, presumably blacks. Of course you meant black since we are talking about the NBA. How many Asian or Hispanic NBA players are there?

Have you ever been to an NBA game? I don't see a lot of black fans there. I see mostly white high rollers on expense accounts. Who gets hurt most when there is less funding for public schools? The poor do, and they are disproportionately black. It's perverse you turn this discussion into if your're against subsidizing owners (most of whom are overgrown kids) and multi-millionaire pro athlests, you're against minorities.

If you think I was angry you're mistaken. But I don't take being called racist lightly, especially when in doing so the accuser engages in a classic form of racism himself. If you call someone a racist you'd better have the goods on them, because I think those should always be fighing words. If you think it's no big deal, you need to reflect.
Yes, I have been to an NBA game...in Los Angeles, where there are plenty of black people. I guess Seattle does not have a big black population? I dont know. It seems like you are saying that either Seattle has a small black population or that Seattle blacks do not have the money to go to the Key. Either way, that sounds sort of racist...or at the very least, ignorant.

Look, no matter how much you flail about, it doesnt change the fact that your premise is flawed, you showed your racist hand by insinuating that the fans of local NBA teams add little or nothing to the community, and then suggesting that you see mostly white high rollers at NBA games....based on what sample size? How many arenas and in what cities? Name an NBA game you have attended that was not in SLC or Seattle.

If you dont want to be called a racist, don't act like one.

On a side note, what are you guys doing for the Fourth? BBQ?
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:34 PM   #20
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If you assertion is true and you really beleive that anyone who works in a building financed by munis is being paid by tax dollars, then I guess you, me, and everyone else is paid by the state. At that point, I am not sure what the relevance is of singling out NBA players. Why not actors? Lawyers? Doctors? everyone is guilty, I guess. Good point.
You don't believe that everyone owning or employed by an NBA team or associated financially with the NBA benefits from billions of dollars in public givaways to the NBA that occur throughout the United States? Yes or no? Do you deny that those handouts occur?
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