cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board  

Go Back   cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board > non-Sports > Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2008, 09:11 PM   #41
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
No you haven't. You have said the bar is lower for this temporary custody hearing. This is the bar that would allow theoretical abuse 15 years from now to be enough reason to take away an infant from his/her mother.

In my opinion, any reasonable reading of the statute, as I understand it, would not allow for this.
Mike, I'm sure temporary custody issues are subject to the trial judge's discretion based on review of the testimony, etc. Smart lawyers recognize that except in extreme circumstances disagreeing with a judge's exercise of discretion is like shouting and pumping your fist at God or complaining about sports injuries or that a ref's call cost you the championship. That's just how the system works. Is there a better way? Somebody has to evaluate the evidence and make a judgment decision. As long as the system is working you accept it and move on unless you're one of those kooks who carries signs in front of the court house. These are temporary custody hearings, and the judge has plenty of grounds to conclude that the community is about as wholesome as the Manson family. Whatever the imperfections of this proceeding I bet there are more upsetting violations of civil liberties about which you can bang your drum.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster

Last edited by SeattleUte; 04-23-2008 at 09:14 PM.
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 09:13 PM   #42
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
I am trying to think of another high-profile case involving competing rights that was as divisive as this one, and I am having a tough time. Hell, I argue with myself about it.
Nobody cares much about this except for Mormons and except for just being appalled at the way these people conducted their lives.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 09:14 PM   #43
TripletDaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 9,483
TripletDaddy can only hope to improve
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
Trust me, I make decisions about imminent danger before a judge a lot more than you. You probably no times, or a few times. Me, hundreds of times.

Additionally I've testified in court as to imminent danger. I have some knowledge about it.

You on the other hand trumpet your training/knowledge while providing no direct counterpoint to what I've said. It's your own version of an ad hominem.

But since I'm feeling generous, I'll give you some advice. Don't use the flash on your camera when taking a closeup of a toddler from 3 feet away. It blows out the picture.
I am curious. If this is true, then how does Texas define "imminent danger?" I asked before but you didnt answer. Now you are stating clearly that you have testified regarding that very point.

If you have testified in the form of an expert, then surely you can clearly state the Texas definition for "imminent danger." Is the definition statutory?

I honestly dont know, which is why I am asking.
__________________
Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

"Everyone is against me. Everyone is fawning for 3D's attention and defending him." -- SeattleUte
TripletDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 09:17 PM   #44
MikeWaters
Demiurge
 
MikeWaters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,363
MikeWaters is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

See the problem with this is that when the perception is that the govt. is failing in its responsibilities....when you have the executive (CPS and Gov. Perry) and the Judiciary acting in concert, in what appears to many as a huge power grab.....that just causes some people to believe that the system cannot be trusted. That you cannot work through the system to make change. In other words, this is how radicalization occurs.

This is also how facism occurs. Where people assent to a loss of liberties, because the cause seems justified.

This is a situation the the govt. has handled extremely poorly.

(btw, I think the tendency towards facism is more the issue).
MikeWaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 09:21 PM   #45
Jeff Lebowski
Charon
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo)
Posts: 9,564
Jeff Lebowski is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
Nobody cares much about this except for Mormons and except for just being appalled at the way these people conducted their lives.
Aha. Someone should inform the national media. I had a three-hour evening drive the other day and I was listening to various news channels (Fox, ABC, CNN, CNN HDL, etc.) on my XM radio and it was the only topic covered by all channels during the entire three hours. Larry King, Greta VS, Anderson Cooper, etc.

I will concede that the "competing rights" angle is mainly a debate among the LDS.
__________________
"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Jeff Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 10:12 PM   #46
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
I will concede that the "competing rights" angle is mainly a debate among the LDS.
That's my point, though probably not well stated. People are agape at the grotesque spectacle, but only Mormons are attuned to the civil rights or competing rights isssue.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 10:24 PM   #47
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
See the problem with this is that when the perception is that the govt. is failing in its responsibilities....when you have the executive (CPS and Gov. Perry) and the Judiciary acting in concert, in what appears to many as a huge power grab.....that just causes some people to believe that the system cannot be trusted. That you cannot work through the system to make change. In other words, this is how radicalization occurs.

This is also how facism occurs. Where people assent to a loss of liberties, because the cause seems justified.

This is a situation the the govt. has handled extremely poorly.

(btw, I think the tendency towards facism is more the issue).
My only point is that just because a judge hears testimony and rules or rules badly or disagreeably doesn't mean we're about to become fascist. This happens all the time, virtually every minute.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 10:25 PM   #48
BlueK
Senior Member
 
BlueK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,368
BlueK is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
That's my point, though probably not well stated. People are agape at the grotesque spectacle, but only Mormons are attuned to the civil rights or competing rights isssue.
because in the US no one really cares about the civil rights of mormons or mormon offshoot groups.
BlueK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 10:28 PM   #49
MikeWaters
Demiurge
 
MikeWaters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,363
MikeWaters is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
My only point is that just because a judge hears testimony and rules or rules badly or disagreeably doesn't mean we're about to become fascist. This happens all the time, virtually every minute.
lack of concern about this is the path to fascism.
MikeWaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 10:29 PM   #50
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
because in the US no one really cares about the civil rights of mormons or mormon offshoot groups.
Nobody except the ACLU. That's why there's an ACLU. To make sure that seemingly loathsome people like accused pedophiles and Nazis receive due process. We need the ACLU because of people like the FLDS.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.