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Old 04-23-2008, 02:26 PM   #1
MikeWaters
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Default Due process concerns for the FLDS situation

1. The standard that the judge had to use to make a decision was whether a child 1) had been abused or 2) was in imminent danger of abuse.

This was what the ACLU said as reported by Catholic News:
Quote:
Burke continued, “As this situation continues to unfold, we are concerned that the constitutional rights that all Americans rely upon and cherish – that we are secure in our homes, that we may worship as we please and hold our places of worship sacred, and that we may be with our children absent evidence of imminent danger – have been threatened.
I have a problem with the idea that infants are in imminent danger of abuse, or that every child is in imminent danger of abuse.

2. The lack of hearings for each child to consider that child's unique circumstances. There are reports that some children were visiting and had been there for only a few days. Again from the ACLU:
Quote:
“The government must ensure that each mother and each child in its custody receives due process of law in determining the placement of the children and other matters regarding the children’s care.”
From the SL Tribune:
Quote:
Parker said he doesn't see how the state can handle the planned Thursday hearing en masse. The state would like to put forward one case as representing everyone, but is required by law to deal with each family individually, Parker said. The parents involved are entitled to due process at the hearing, he said.
"Just because there are logistical issues doesn't mean [the state] can violate the rights of 500 women and children," Parker said.
3. The judge not responding to objections from lawyers representing parents and the children. Hence the AP calling the hearing "a farce":
Quote:
A court hearing to decide the fate of the 416 children swept up in a raid on a West Texas polygamist sect descended into farce Thursday, with hundreds of lawyers in two packed buildings shouting objections and the judge struggling to maintain order.
That is not careful consideration.

From the DN:
Quote:
But several attorneys launched objections asserting that the documents are protected under a clergy-parishioner religious privilege. Called a "bishop's record," prosecutors said the documents contain a list of names and ages, including indications of underage pregnant girls.

Attorney Amy Hennington also argued that attorneys needed more time to review them. Another attorney cited objections to the documents' admissibility under the Fourth Amendment, saying they were procured by an unlawful search and seizure. He also raised concerns over the 14th Amendment, asserting due process claims.

The judge clearly began to express her frustration at the flurry of Constitutional issues being raised and said Thursday's hearing was simply designed to determine the custody status of the children.
4. In some cases lawyers volunteered to represent infants and toddlers and were provided no information by the state as to why they were seeking to remove custody from the parents.

5. Lastly, this is not a legal argument, but an argument that the judge has admitted, I think, to being incompetent and unable to handle the case:
Quote:
Walther, who described herself as a "simple country judge," tried to juggle objections from many of the more than 350 attorneys representing all areas of Texas who are present to handle the monumental case. Every mother has legal representation as do the children.
There is only reason she described herself as "simple." The way she has handled the case demonstrates exactly that.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
1. The standard that the judge had to use to make a decision was whether a child 1) had been abused or 2) was in imminent danger of abuse.

This was what the ACLU said as reported by Catholic News:


I have a problem with the idea that infants are in imminent danger of abuse, or that every child is in imminent danger of abuse.

2. The lack of hearings for each child to consider that child's unique circumstances. There are reports that some children were visiting and had been there for only a few days. Again from the ACLU:


From the SL Tribune:


3. The judge not responding to objections from lawyers representing parents and the children. Hence the AP calling the hearing "a farce":
That is not careful consideration.

From the DN:


4. In some cases lawyers volunteered to represent infants and toddlers and were provided no information by the state as to why they were seeking to remove custody from the parents.

5. Lastly, this is not a legal argument, but an argument that the judge has admitted, I think, to being incompetent and unable to handle the case:


There is only reason she described herself as "simple." The way she has handled the case demonstrates exactly that.
If you have an understanding of our legal system, you would understand Judges are accountable to no one.

The same people who laud this judge for cracking down on the FLDS pedophiles probably defend to the hilt pedophiles who are let go all around this country by liberal judges.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:03 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by KiteRider View Post
It sounds like your due process concerns are the result of a bureaucratic system that just isn't capable of dealing with the size of this problem.
If that's all you got out of that I fear for your IQ.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:11 PM   #4
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Texas justice, a six shooter and asking questions of the deceased.

That hearing was a joke, and hello 1983 actions galore. I wish I would receive some of those fees to be earned.

That is an example of the worst of American justice, although there are some beauts now and then.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:19 PM   #5
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Please do not come here and say "due process wasn't possible."

You sound like a moron. And I'm serious.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiteRider View Post
What is the court supposed to do? The community lacks the resources to administer justice in the best and most professional way. I presume the court system works fine most of the time, but just wasn't prepared to deal with a problem of this size.

BTW, there are plenty of cults, hippies communes and hate organizations littering the American West that pick their homes precisely to take advantage of the limited resources of their host communities. If your goal is to have sex with underage girls, it isn't a bad strategy.
Having seen courts adjudicate complex cases, and never having been a judge, I could have done a better job.

First, small counties typically can rely upon visiting or senior judges. You call them up immediately.

Second, you postpone all other matters, and schedule around the clock.

Third, you summarily review cases that appear non-legitimate, i.e., the infants and dismiss those providing CPS the opportunity to bolster their cases, ordering the defendants or mothers not to leave town.

Fourth, you deny the class action custody hearing, as that is NOT constitutionally allowed, as far as my limited knowledge of custody hearings go.

Fifth, you set schedules via internet, require filings to occur timely, especially by CPS or dismiss the contention.

It would take about two weeks to a month, but perhaps one could pare it down.

This judge is a joke.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
Please do not come here and say "due process wasn't possible."

You sound like a moron. And I'm serious.
Doesn't everyone who disagrees with you sound like a moron to you. I thought that was a given.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BYU71 View Post
Doesn't everyone who disagrees with you sound like a moron to you. I thought that was a given.
Due process is a constitutional right. People who use logistical reasons to take away constitutional rights, and say that is ok, are traitors to the state.

Am I clear?
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
Due process is a constitutional right. People who use logistical reasons to take away constitutional rights, and say that is ok, are traitors to the state.

Am I clear?
Yes sir.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
Due process is a constitutional right. People who use logistical reasons to take away constitutional rights, and say that is ok, are traitors to the state.

Am I clear?
Apparently, you have judges in Texas who betray your state.
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