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Old 11-26-2007, 10:24 PM   #41
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Why test the cop? It's just ludicrous to even go there. It's like treating a McDonald's employee rudely and then being shocked when he spits a loogie in your hamburger.
The bozo acted stupidly, but the cop's job is to protect society at large and the bozo from himself. The fact that an average citizen might have made the same mistake doesn't excuse the cop for not following his training. Cops need to be better than the average citizen in the performance of their duties.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:27 PM   #42
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Like I said, the cop may or may not have been in the wrong. I can't speak to that.

I will even agree that the officer was in the wrong for the purposes of this discussion. That doesn't change my overall sentiment that the guy deserved to be tased. At some point, people have to be held responsible for their actions rather than blaming anyone and anything for the misfortune in their lives.

Was the cop power hungry? Possibly. Did the cop make a grave mistake that could cost him his job? Perhaps.

Could the situation have been avoided if the guy would have simply complied with the police officer's requests? (requests that wouldn't have hurt anybody and were very simple to obey, btw - it's not as if the cop was asking the guy to perform fellatio on him) Definitely.

Why test the cop? It's just ludicrous to even go there. It's like treating a McDonald's employee rudely and then being shocked when he spits a loogie in your hamburger.
I agree that the guy was stupid to test the cop, but I really feel like the man's attitude is irrelevant. He did nothing that should have made the cop think that tasing him was a good idea. Again, every citizen of this country should have the right be a humongous jackass. Cops enforce laws, not attitudes. The guy probably deserves to get smacked upside the head by his friends and family for being a dumbass, but the cop had no right to do anything of the sort.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:30 PM   #43
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Why test the cop? It's just ludicrous to even go there. It's like treating a McDonald's employee rudely and then being shocked when he spits a loogie in your hamburger.
I would hope you would be shocked if someone spits a loogie in your hamburger. Your logic is the same logic used by people who say, "Well, if she didn't want to be raped, she shouldn't have dressed that way."
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:36 PM   #44
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I would hope you would be shocked if someone spits a loogie in your hamburger.
I'm not quite that naive. I would never be shocked if a zit faced kid were to do such a thing after being provoked.

And as far as being raped, nobody ever deserves to be raped. But, by the same token, girls should be as responsible as possible in order to keep themselves out of those situations where a rape would be more likely to happen.

It's one of the many reasons I would discourage one of my daughters from dressing immodestly.

If my son were to get caught speeding and then proceed to act like the guy in that video, I'd probably drive down to the police station and give the cop a high five.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:41 PM   #45
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girls should be as responsible as possible in order to keep themselves out of those situations where a rape would be more likely to happen.
Sure, but that's not relevant. The guy should have had less of an attitude, but that's equally irrelevant. His attitude does not justify the cop's illegal assault.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:44 PM   #46
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It's one of the many reasons I would discourage one of my daughters from dressing immodestly.
Has there ever been any data suggesting that a woman's dress contributed to her being raped? I think not. It's about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Now, date rape is not about dress but unreasonable expectations in light of bad circumstances. So no, not even that is about dress unless the gal is spreading asking for it and then claiming it was rape. And that's a state of undress.

So worrying about rape as a reason to discourage lack of coverage seems to be least good persuasive reason.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:27 PM   #47
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I agree that the guy was stupid to test the cop, but I really feel like the man's attitude is irrelevant. He did nothing that should have made the cop think that tasing him was a good idea. Again, every citizen of this country should have the right be a humongous jackass. Cops enforce laws, not attitudes. The guy probably deserves to get smacked upside the head by his friends and family for being a dumbass, but the cop had no right to do anything of the sort.
I disagree on this one. This has nothing about a guy's right to be rude. It has everything to do with the safety of the officer. As you noted, cops enforce laws. Multiple laws at play here: you must follow lawful instructions from an officer (and his instructions were lawful); you must not resist arrest; you must sign a ticket or you will be arrested.

The policeman was well within his right to ask the guy to sign a ticket. Not signing a ticket will always land you in jail (and it should). The officer gave very clear instructions to the guy, and the guy totally disregarded those instructions. Traffic tickets are the most dangerous routine activity an officer engages in, statistically. So when a guy refuses to sign a ticket, and starts wandering back to the car, what do you want the cop to do?

a) ask again (he did)
b) be polite and forget about the ticket
c) threaten force (he did)
d) let the guy go back to the vehicle and out of your sight (where he could have a weapon)
e) tase the bro (he did).

To be honest, the girlfriend is lucky she finally went back to the car. She was a second away from being tased too (and she also would have deserved it).

It was a high tension situation, and the guy was escalating the situation by turning his back to the officer and going back to the vehicle. The girlfriend further escalated the tension by getting out of the car and approaching the officer who was obviously uncomfortable with the situation.

Lesson learned. Do what the cop says. Especially when he tells you he will tase you if you don't.

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Old 11-26-2007, 11:29 PM   #48
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Sure, but that's not relevant. The guy should have had less of an attitude, but that's equally irrelevant. His attitude does not justify the cop's illegal assault.
Jumping to conclusions again, aren't you?

What makes it an "illegal assault?" You assume both that it was assault, and that it was illegal.

Why is his attitude irrelevant? Can't attitude convey a threat? If it does, can't an officer take proper steps to protect himself? Can attitude undermine authority? If it does, can the officer not reassert authority?
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:40 PM   #49
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Tasering somebody is assault. That doesn't seem very subjective. I'd rather be punched the face than tasered. The cop could have done any number of things. If not signing a ticket is grounds for arrest (not sure if that's the case) then the cop should have arrested him. He didn't. He chose instead to taser him for no reason. If he thought his life was in danger, he was wrong and is probably not emotionally strong enough to handle his job. Did he tell the man he would be tasered if he didn't comply? I didn't hear it, nor did I see the man not complying. The cop could have de-escalated the situation, but I didn't even see him attempt to do so. Therefore, the cop is wrong. If a professional and an amateur both screw up, the professional takes the blame.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:04 AM   #50
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Tasering somebody is assault. That doesn't seem very subjective. I'd rather be punched the face than tasered. The cop could have done any number of things. If not signing a ticket is grounds for arrest (not sure if that's the case) then the cop should have arrested him. He didn't. He chose instead to taser him for no reason. If he thought his life was in danger, he was wrong and is probably not emotionally strong enough to handle his job. Did he tell the man he would be tasered if he didn't comply? I didn't hear it, nor did I see the man not complying. The cop could have de-escalated the situation, but I didn't even see him attempt to do so. Therefore, the cop is wrong. If a professional and an amateur both screw up, the professional takes the blame.
Tasering someone isn't assualt. Assault is a legal term with a specific meaning. It CAN be assault, depending on the circumstances. Whether or not you would rather be punched in the face than tasered did not make its way into the definition of assault in the Utah Code.

Not signing a ticket IS grounds for arrest. The ticket is a mechanism used by police as a courtesy in lieu of arrest. You don't have to go to jail if you agree to sign the ticket (which states that you will appear for your court appearance, and is not an admission of guilt). If you refuse to sign the ticket, the officer most certainly has the legal authority to arrest you.

The officer gave clear instructions to the man. He pulled out a taser and pointed it at the guy while repeating the simple instructions. The guy proceeded to put his hand in his pocket and walk away from the officer. That is begging for a tasing.

You say the cop could have "de-escalated" the situtation. How? Isn't that subjective? Don't you want the police to be the one to make that determination? The guy put his hand in his pocket (stupid) turned his back to the officer and walked away (also stupid).

As for your claim that the cop was "wrong" and not "emotionally stable" if he thought he was in danger, I would suggest that you don't have a clue what police go through in traffic stops.
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