cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board  

Go Back   cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board > non-Sports > Current Events

View Poll Results: Is healthcare in the U.S....
a right? 2 8.70%
a privilege? 6 26.09%
a responsibility? 15 65.22%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2008, 08:17 PM   #61
Mormon Red Death
Senior Member
 
Mormon Red Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Posts: 3,126
Mormon Red Death is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
You've read too much Ayn Rand.

You found the answer already. You believe it's a right to have a lawyer in criminal cases but not civil cases. You probably believe in other basic survival rights. It's just how far you want to go drawing the line at what's a basic right/need and what's not. Food, shelter, very basic health care are all doable for our country.
I believe its a right to have Lawyer represent you in a criminal case if you can't afford one. I don't believe every person has a right to an attorney for every type of court procedures they have.
__________________
Its all about the suit
Mormon Red Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 08:20 PM   #62
jay santos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,177
jay santos is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
I believe its a right to have Lawyer represent you in a criminal case if you can't afford one. I don't believe every person has a right to an attorney for every type of court procedures they have.
But isn't it immoral to force that lawyer to provide his goods to another? You're putting that lawyer in slavery, blah blah Ayn Rand blah blah.

In practicality I believe very closely on this with you, just want to slam on Ayn Rans.
jay santos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 08:29 PM   #63
Mormon Red Death
Senior Member
 
Mormon Red Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Posts: 3,126
Mormon Red Death is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
But isn't it immoral to force that lawyer to provide his goods to another? You're putting that lawyer in slavery, blah blah Ayn Rand blah blah.

In practicality I believe very closely on this with you, just want to slam on Ayn Rans.
No lawyer is forced to do it... Now if they socialized every lawyer in the country and said:
"These are the amounts that we will pay for Law services" then it would be immoral. Having Universal Health care does exactly that. It sets the price for health care services. A physician can't charge more for the one payor it has. A lawyer can always not work as a public defendant and get a job doing corporate law if he/she wishes.
__________________
Its all about the suit
Mormon Red Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 09:38 PM   #64
Cali Coug
Senior Member
 
Cali Coug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,996
Cali Coug has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
Uh huh. What percentage of the actual cost is projected to be recouped in this fashion?
More than is currently recouped. If your primary concern is recouping funds, it seems you would jump on board immediately with Obama's plan, as it is certain to recoup more than McCain's plan or the status quo (if it recoups $0.01, it will be more).
Cali Coug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 09:43 PM   #65
jay santos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,177
jay santos is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
No lawyer is forced to do it... Now if they socialized every lawyer in the country and said:
"These are the amounts that we will pay for Law services" then it would be immoral. Having Universal Health care does exactly that. It sets the price for health care services. A physician can't charge more for the one payor it has. A lawyer can always not work as a public defendant and get a job doing corporate law if he/she wishes.
Why equate the statement "in America in the year 2008, health care is a right" with univeral health care with set prices for all providers for all services. I never would make that leap.
jay santos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 01:08 AM   #66
Mormon Red Death
Senior Member
 
Mormon Red Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Posts: 3,126
Mormon Red Death is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
Why equate the statement "in America in the year 2008, health care is a right" with univeral health care with set prices for all providers for all services. I never would make that leap.
Ok then what does "In America in the year 2008 health care is a right" really mean?

A right is a legal or moral entitlement or permission. In this case if we say that Health care is a right that means each american/person is entitled to health care without having to pay for it. Universal health care is the only way the "right" can be carried out.
__________________
Its all about the suit
Mormon Red Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 01:13 AM   #67
UtahDan
Senior Member
 
UtahDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Bluth Home
Posts: 3,877
UtahDan is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Coug View Post
More than is currently recouped. If your primary concern is recouping funds, it seems you would jump on board immediately with Obama's plan, as it is certain to recoup more than McCain's plan or the status quo (if it recoups $0.01, it will be more).
No because I don't accept the premise that it will cost the same. It will cost a great deal more and we will recoup a teen tiny part of it. That is my point when I said we are giving free health care to people, who just aren't choosing to buy it themselves, and you and I will pay for it. You may think there is a moral imperative to do that but I don't. We can't afford to even if I thought there were such an imperative.
__________________
The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo
UtahDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 02:40 AM   #68
jay santos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,177
jay santos is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
Ok then what does "In America in the year 2008 health care is a right" really mean?

A right is a legal or moral entitlement or permission. In this case if we say that Health care is a right that means each american/person is entitled to health care without having to pay for it. Universal health care is the only way the "right" can be carried out.
Just like you said all have right to criminal attorney, yet only a small portion get it for free. It's actually a good example.
jay santos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 02:41 AM   #69
FMCoug
Senior Member
 
FMCoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kaysville, UT
Posts: 3,151
FMCoug
Default

I chose responsibility by default becasue both of the other answers are wrong. But it's a vague answer to be sure.
__________________
Still fat ...
FMCoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2008, 04:17 AM   #70
Cali Coug
Senior Member
 
Cali Coug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,996
Cali Coug has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
No because I don't accept the premise that it will cost the same. It will cost a great deal more and we will recoup a teen tiny part of it. That is my point when I said we are giving free health care to people, who just aren't choosing to buy it themselves, and you and I will pay for it. You may think there is a moral imperative to do that but I don't. We can't afford to even if I thought there were such an imperative.
Who do you think pays for uninsured people to receive health care right now?
Cali Coug is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.