NIU killer and the FOID Card

[MikeWaters]

I just learned that you have to own a FOID card in Illinois to even *own* a gun.

Wow. That's nuts.

Here is an article about it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/678118/posts

Apparently that card wasn't enough to prevent a mass murder. Shocking.

Obama says he thinks the 2nd amendment is an individual right. But on the other hand he supports the gun ban in the District of Columbia. Hillary also makes sure that people know she supports the 2nd amendment.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...I1gMgD8UQVCAO0

I don't believe either really supports the right to bear arms. It worries me that people who want to commit mass murder know that universities are "gun-free zones". What better place to start shooting, knowing that the chance you will receive return fire is close to zilch? Go to a mall in Texas, wouldn't be the same.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I just learned that you have to own a FOID card in Illinois to even *own* a gun.

Wow. That's nuts.

Here is an article about it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/678118/posts

Apparently that card wasn't enough to prevent a mass murder. Shocking.

Obama says he thinks the 2nd amendment is an individual right. But on the other hand he supports the gun ban in the District of Columbia. Hillary also makes sure that people know she supports the 2nd amendment.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...I1gMgD8UQVCAO0

I don't believe either really supports the right to bear arms. It worries me that people who want to commit mass murder know that universities are "gun-free zones". What better place to start shooting, knowing that the chance you will receive return fire is close to zilch? Go to a mall in Texas, wouldn't be the same.

Good post.

[Archaea]

A Nevada CWP, concealed weapons permit, is easier to obtain than a FOID.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I just learned that you have to own a FOID card in Illinois to even *own* a gun.

Wow. That's nuts.

Here is an article about it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/678118/posts

Apparently that card wasn't enough to prevent a mass murder. Shocking.

Obama says he thinks the 2nd amendment is an individual right. But on the other hand he supports the gun ban in the District of Columbia. Hillary also makes sure that people know she supports the 2nd amendment.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...I1gMgD8UQVCAO0

I don't believe either really supports the right to bear arms. It worries me that people who want to commit mass murder know that universities are "gun-free zones". What better place to start shooting, knowing that the chance you will receive return fire is close to zilch? Go to a mall in Texas, wouldn't be the same.

Yeah the malls in Utah are way different than those in Texas, because hardly anybody in Utah owns a gun. The vast, vast majority of people don't go around strapped and they would not even if it were super easy.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

Yeah the malls in Utah are way different than those in Texas, because hardly anybody in Utah owns a gun. The vast, vast majority of people don't go around strapped and they would not even if it were super easy.

Of all the terrible examples for a liberal to pick, LOL, you pick one in which the killer was stopped by someone with a concealed weapon.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5219765

I will also note that in a recent mass killing situation in Colorado, a female concealed weapon holder was instrumental in stopping the killer (I think she shot him and put him down, and then he blew his head off himself).

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Of all the terrible examples for a liberal to pick, LOL, you pick one in which the killer was stopped by someone with a concealed weapon.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5219765

I will also note that in a recent mass killing situation in Colorado, a female concealed weapon holder was instrumental in stopping the killer (I think she shot him and put him down, and then he blew his head off himself).

Waters on a roll!!!

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Of all the terrible examples for a liberal to pick, LOL, you pick one in which the killer was stopped by someone with a concealed weapon.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5219765

I will also note that in a recent mass killing situation in Colorado, a female concealed weapon holder was instrumental in stopping the killer (I think she shot him and put him down, and then he blew his head off himself).

How many did the guy in SLC get first? How many did the shooter in Colorado get first?

I picked that one specifically to demonstrate that the unlikely event of a person having a concealed weapons permit (or being an off duty police officer) did not prevent loss of life. It limited it the scope of the disaster. I am not against concealed carry permits.

But to think that concealed carry is going to prevent these kind of events is extremely shortsighted. And the argument that people will think twice about going on rampages if they don't know who is packing fails to take into account the fact that people who go on rampages really don't give a shit if they die.

So excuse me if I get blowhard fatigue every time one of these shootings happens and the "we need every citizen armed" crowd comes trotting out.

[UtahDan]

The funny thing in Va is that people get in trouble all the time for concealing a weapon without a permit when it is perfectly legal to simply wear one on your hip and, at least in the rural areas, while its not a common sight you do see it from time to time.

We have a bill in the legislature which either just passed, or is about to, which will change the definition of conceal to not include a glove box as it does now.

I represented a guy several years ago who went to weapons show and tried to sell swords, daggers, fighting chains, nun-chucks, brass knuckles, etc. Transported them in his back seat, in boxes, under a blanket. Pulled over for speeding and is asked if he has any weapons. He laughs, pulls the blanket away, and when officer sees them he confiscates them and charges him with carrying a concealed weapon.

There wasn't any question that he had violated the statute. The victory in that case was getting the collection (worth about 20K) returned sans the knuckles and fighting chains b/c according the prosecutor "no one should have those." If only he hadn't covered them with a blanket, there would have been no crime.

[Zulu451]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

How many did the guy in SLC get first? How many did the shooter in Colorado get first?

I picked that one specifically to demonstrate that the unlikely event of a person having a concealed weapons permit (or being an off duty police officer) did not prevent loss of life. It limited it the scope of the disaster. I am not against concealed carry permits.

But to think that concealed carry is going to prevent these kind of events is extremely shortsighted. And the argument that people will think twice about going on rampages if they don't know who is packing fails to take into account the fact that people who go on rampages really don't give a shit if they die.

So excuse me if I get blowhard fatigue every time one of these shootings happens and the "we need every citizen armed" crowd comes trotting out.

No one who supports CCL's will ever say that the presence of an armed, trained population will prevent these incidents. In fact by law, you can't "prevent" them, you can merely react to them and protect / defend yourself and others.

People won't think twice about going on rampages. That would imply rational thought to people who are doing unrational things and who are likely mentally ill.

The fact in undisputable, the government cannot protect you. Therefore, you must be able to have the freedom and choice to protect yourself and your family.

[MikeWaters]

It's an unreasonable standard, as Zulu says, to expect ANYONE to prevent the first shot. If you ban guns altogether, you still can't prevent the first shot.