The temple

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Great story. So, since the Area Presidency would have been the same for your mission and mine (I think), can I assume the rule was lifted after I came home? Or was it never a rule in your mission?

I knew of no rule. I know there was concern if we taught muslims who were not British citizens and had to return back to Pakistan or India or Nigeria where sometimes folks lose their heads over conversion to Christian religions. In those cases I recall that we could teach but not baptize.

I liked the muslims and have long believed that the religion in this world that is most similar to LDS doctrine is Islam, other than that whole Jesus Christ as a prophet and not the Son of God and Savior of mankind issue. I am sure Seattle will agree. In fact, there were more than one I taught who would would say "Joseph Smith, peace be upon him" after our many discussions. They were down with many of our beliefs and practices.

On the whole they were far more Christlike and family oriented than the average limey. They also had better teeth.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by All-American

Here. Maybe this helps.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10348

Wow...really interesting stuff and you put a lot of work into that.

Thanks.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Wow...really interesting stuff and you put a lot of work into that.

Thanks.

No problem.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I knew of no rule. I know there was concern if we taught muslims who were not British citizens and had to return back to Pakistan or India or Nigeria where sometimes folks lose their heads over conversion to Christian religions. In those cases I recall that we could teach but not baptize.

Perhaps it had more to do with the coming Gulf War and they were just looking out for us at the time. I was disappointed to have to exclude an entire group of people, but they weren't exactly inviting us in anyway. I'd love to have been able to teach and see a muslim convert.

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

I was disappointed to have to exclude an entire group of people, but they weren't exactly inviting us in anyway. I'd love to have been able to teach and see a muslim convert.

We actually taught and baptized several Muslims on my mission. I would have to go back and look it up, but I would guess it was 6 or 8. Most of them were Iranian refugees to Canada by way of Turkey.

Looking back, I question how sincere they were about investigating Christianity. Most of them, it seemed, were getting baptized as their way of giving their old country and religion the bird. One guy was always very evasive and skiddish whenever we asked about anything related to his past. I wonder if he already had a hit on him, or if he was seriously concerned that it may soon happen.

Sorry for the threadjack, ER. Interesting discussion.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

If you honestly can't get anything out of the ceremony itself, then at least take solace in knowing you're serving others; and there's nothing wrong with a little selfless service.

What people are you helping? Do you sincerely believe that a just God makes one's salvation dependent on an imperfect people doing imperfect temple work?

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

What people are you helping? Do you sincerely believe that a just God makes one's salvation dependent on an imperfect people doing imperfect temple work?

Not that Indy can't answer this himself, but I'll give it a shot...

It's sort of a trite analogy, but I think it works. It's like when my 6 yo son helps me in the yard. He's not much of a help, he probably makes some things harder, but he's helping because it helps him practice doing "big people" things. Maybe temple work is our way of practice of doing "godly" things--helping others achieve salvation. Sure, God will fill in the gaps so it's not really necessary in a sense, but it is completely necessary for our own salvation to work on helping others.

Just my thought. Of course, I'm the one struggling with the concept of temple work in the first place. So preface all of that with..."if this temple thing is really what they claim it is,"

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

We actually taught and baptized several Muslims on my mission. I would have to go back and look it up, but I would guess it was 6 or 8. Most of them were Iranian refugees to Canada by way of Turkey.

Looking back, I question how sincere they were about investigating Christianity. Most of them, it seemed, were getting baptized as their way of giving their old country and religion the bird. One guy was always very evasive and skiddish whenever we asked about anything related to his past. I wonder if he already had a hit on him, or if he was seriously concerned that it may soon happen.

Sorry for the threadjack, ER. Interesting discussion.

When we lived in Colorado a few years back, the counselor in our bishopric was an Iranian who had converted from Islam. Great man, very humble, hard-working, and intelligent.

His mother came to visit him from Iran, and while she was in the states, he didn't come to church at all. He told me that his mother probably would be accepting of his conversion, but that if she slipped and said something to the wrong person back in Iran, the family might be subject to persecution for having an infidel in the family. So it was better that she didn't even know.

His wife told us that he had been introduced to a Seventy (she told me the name, but I don't remember it now) at one point after a stake or regional leadership meeting. The GA asked him if any of his family knew about his membership, and when he answered that they didn't, the GA told him something like "and they never will".

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

This is an area of my testimony that I struggle with. I don't really like going. I think it's boring. I feel like the ceremony is fairly sexist. I have trouble with the Masonic roots of it all. I feel like people confuse quiet setting with a certain decorative motif with the Spirit.

But most of all, I just don't feel like the key to drawing closer to God is a bunch of special signs.

The way I've dealt with this is by not going--which probably isn't the best way. I'm wise enough to realize that I don't know everything and I certainly don't want to write it off based on my premature judgments. But I'm also not very good at just going with things and trusting. It's difficult to resolve concerns about the temple precisely because you can't talk about it.

Anyone else have difficulties with the temple ceremonies? Are there any good books/articles out there?

read books about the ancient temple in Israel; it'll help you see the temple in the context of the fullness of times.

you'll see that, as in days of old, rituals are representations of a way of life.

[Mrs. Funk]

I highly recommend a book called Endowed from On High by John D. Charles. I read it before going through the temple and I think it gave the endowment ceremony and its symbols the best treatment that I've read anywhere. It's written by a member of the church, and it's very respectful, but about as explicit a description of it as you'll find in non-internet resource.